Invest in call centers and human staff

Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland reveals the formula for persuasion, why people make decisions and how you can use psychology to your advantage.

Rory is the world’s leading advertising strategist. He spent almost four decades as Ogilvy studying why people behave the way they do and how to change that behavior.

He explains why contrast drives choices and efficiency often destroys value, and how trust, friction, and design shape real-world behavior.

+Rory was previously on the show, check out episode 19.

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Approximate Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:31) AI and Decision Making

(03:48) Are We Looking for Efficiency in the Wrong Place?

(15:52) Ad Break

(18:09) Ice Cold Beer Thought Experiment

(19:56) Trust and Manipulation

(27:15) Dyson Customer Experience and 'Brand Quake'

(29:21) Customer Value Thinking

(34:28) Why Is Dyson So Effective at Marketing?

(36:28) Ad Break

(38:51) Map/Territory Problem in Business

(39:27) The Problem with Shareholders

(42:29) The Problem with 'Tech Bro' Decision Making

(45:14) Warren Buffett’s Approach to Choosing Management

(47:52) John Bragg’s Approach to Buying Infrastructure

(51:23) High Trust vs Low Trust Societies

(58:45) What Can We Learn from the Mad Men Era of Marketing

(1:03:59) The Danger of Bad Marketing

(1:17:47) Navigating Cancel Culture with Common Sense

(1:29:59) Signalling to Ourselves When We Purchase Something

(1:39:06) Changing of Societal Norms

(1:43:27) How to Write Good Copy

(1:56:30) What Is Success for You?

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