So if you do really value all of the reading, reviewing, organizing, interviewing, emailing, editing and distribution that goes on behind the scenes to help bring this learning to your ears I'd really appreciate it if you could go to patreon.com forward slash E-R-R or follow the link for my website and sign up to make a monthly donation of a few dollars to help with the ongoing production of the show. If you could say thank you by making an ongoing donation each month I would be very grateful. Thanks for considering supporting the show listeners and now without further ado let's jump straight into episode 28 of the E-Triblar podcast with Vivian Robinson. Alright well distinguished Professor Emeritus Vivian Robinson welcome to their education research reading

room. Good to be here all of that.

Alright the first question we always ask Vivian is if you're at a party and someone asks Hi Vivian what is it that you do? What is your answer?

Well I'm a leadership researcher and developer and I love that combination of research and development because that's been a theme of my whole career how to do research that connects with and improves practice. So the one I'm doing at the moment is I'm running my own consultancy business with a few very dear and special clients mostly in Victoria with the Victorian Government of Department of Education and Training and then I have clients in New Zealand and in Scandinavia as well. So that work is about building the capability of principal leaders and system leaders during quite a lot of work with bosses of principals to put it that way and their more senior level system leaders. I'm also continuing to supervise doctoral students who are doing research on leadership capabilities particularly on their ability to build trust with others and I call that program the work that we have which is both a research program and a development program open to learning leadership.