Exploring Influence and Agency in Research

In this episode, researcher and Loose Threads co-author Daniel Elizondo joins us for a far-reaching conversation about UFO secrecy, the architecture of disinformation, and the psychological terrain of the phenomenon itself.

We dig into Jacques Vallée’s “Secret Onion”—a layered model of compartmentalization that explains how information is controlled and obscured within intelligence structures—and explore how narrative control operates both externally through infotainment and internally through belief, seduction, and epistemic vulnerability.

Daniel breaks down the long history of rug pulls, the weaponization of mystery, and what it means to resist the gravitational pull of being “the one” to break the story. We also talk Forbidden Science, Skywatcher, and the invisible handshake between researchers and the phenomenon they seek to understand.

If you’ve ever wondered who controls the narrative—or if you’re part of it—this episode is for you.

📚 Resources and References

• Loose Threads by Daniel Elizondo and the Hermetic Penetrator
• Forbidden Science 6: Scattered Castles by Jacques Vallée
• UFOs: Past, Present, and Future by Robert Emenegger

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TIMESTAMPS
02:24 Sky Watcher and UFO Community Skepticism
08:48 Historical Precedents in UFO Disclosure
10:30 The Holloman Air Force Base Incident
14:35 Challenges in UFO Disclosure and Infotainment
21:45 Personal Experiences and Intelligence Community Interactions
30:58 Navigating the Insider's Club and Forbidden Science
33:08 The Repeated Revelations of Jacques Vallee
35:25 The Evolution of the Invisible College
39:57 The Secret Onion: Layers of Secrecy
49:46 The Phenomenon and Human Curiosity
56:57 The Control Mechanism: Micro and Macro Perspectives
01:01:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts