Welcome to the latest episode of the Working Wellbeing's podcast. This episode was recorded in March 2023, where Alethea and I had the pleasure of speaking with Chris Jones, who's the Chief Safety and Wellbeing Officer at the Department of Corrections in New Zealand. I first met Chris when he worked as Head of Occupational Health and Wellbeing Strategy at Network Rail nearly a decade ago, the time has flown. At the time the thing that really struck me about Chris was his long-term approach that he was trying to take with well-being in the business. So he actually had a 10-year well-being strategy he was working on which I hadn't seen any other organisations do before. Now he actually talks about this strategy in the podcast and how he thinks on reflection maybe a 10-year plan may been a bit optimistic and naive. But for me, he hasn't lost any of that strategic focus, as everything that he talks about in the podcast is about how you can enhance health, safety and wellbeing within organisations over the long term. Chris walks us through his career path from humble beginnings as a personal trainer with an interest in physiology to a place on the executive board of the prison service in New Zealand and everything in between. But the bit I really hope you tune in to listen to is when he talks about wellbeing and complex systems thinking. So Chris asked the question, how do we design workplaces where wellbeing is the outcome rather than harm? Simple as that. But then he talks about how complex systems thinking and emergent phenomena can help with this. About how there are unexpected outcomes that emerge from how an organisational system interacts dynamically. And wellbeing can be an outcome of this, this system. You can't say one thing will enhance wellbeing, you can't just say, right, let's just do this and it'll build well-being. Actually, well-being is the outcome of myriad different factors all interacting with one another. And he uses, I'm going to steal one of his quotes here, he uses this quote, he says, safety is an outcome of work going well and well-being is an outcome of work being experienced well. it's the first time again I've heard safety and well-being being talked about in that particular way it was really really fascinating. So actually he tells us a little bit about how he actually manages that on an executive level, how he spends time speaking to the finance director, chief people officer, all these sorts of roles, really to empathize with different parts of the business. So if you're currently in a role, you know, where perhaps you are on the executive team within an organisation looking after wellbeing or that's your aspiration, this is definitely one to listen to. So anyway, I won't steal any more of Chris's thunder. Enjoy the podcast. Right then, so welcome everybody. Welcome back to the Working Wellbeing podcast. Great to have you all here. Today, I'm really excited to introduce our next podcaster interviewee. What do you call him? I'm not sure. But Chris Jones. So Chris is the Chief Safety and Wellbeing Officer at Department of Corrections in New Zealand.