So what is the actionable take-home then? If we don't even, it sounds like we don't even really know what a healthy gut looks like. That healthy gut signature might be literally as unique as a signature, as unique as a fingerprint for each individual person, right?

I'm so happy you said that. Your microbial fingerprint, I use that all the time. Everybody has a unique microbiome fingerprint. Now there are fingerprints that tend to cluster together. We know what the IBD fingerprint looks like. We know what the rheumatoid arthritis fingerprint looks like. We're actually learning what the Alzheimer's fingerprint looks like, not just in your gut, in your mouth, on your skin, all over your body. I mean, we used to think that the brain was Well, that's not true. We used to think that the fetus or the whole placenta, the embryo, everything was sterile. Also not true. Everybody has a unique fingerprint and we can cluster these different fingerprints together. And then we use big data to understand, okay, how do we manipulate these different clusters and start seeing trends? Because as humans, that's what we are. We're trend seekers. We're pattern seekers. That's what we want to do. And as we start gaining more data and more information, we can start learning that these foods will promote that type of cluster. And these foods will promote a various type of culture, a cluster. So for example, if you look at the prebiotics like pomegranate or cranberry or green tea or cocoa, they actually promote the growth of acromantia, right? That is a bacteria or probiotic that we're learning that has such a profound impact on the microbiome. If we can feed it and allow it to flourish on its own, we can allow it to colonize and have that impact because it'll influence other bacteria in the gut because it's a keystone, all by having a diverse microbiome. You don't need to eat a pomegranate every single day or a pint of berries every single day. You really only need a few little different things that actually add up and push it in that direction because the body will move and the microbiome will start noticing that and it will start creating this environment that is expecting that. And then that continues to impact the way the microbiome changes.

Why is everybody these days talking about acromancy? It's like an MVP of the gut microbiome, but why? We're

starting to learn a lot more about it. It's an anaerobic bacteria. It doesn't like oxygen, so it's very hard to make. It's also one of the bacteria in the gut that actually metabolizes the mucus in your intestines, which is a good thing. I don't think that's the only important player. This comes back to the conversation around the research on nutrition. The problem with microbiome research and nutrition research, because I think the two are connected, is we're utilizing a reductionistic model. It is the wrong model to use. Straight up, it is the wrong model to use when we look at nutrition research. Never ever have I had a patient and I've said, take this single micronutrient, take this single bacteria, and your problem will go away. Humans are way too complex. For a very complex system, we need a very comprehensive approach. The body is way too smart for us. We need to hit it with variety. We need to hit it with a bunch of different nutrients. So we're starting to learn that acromantia and fecal bacteria and brusitzi and a bunch of other keystone bacteria, lactobacilli, bifidobacteria, they are keystone. In other words, you take those guys out and the whole structure could crumble. So we're starting to learn that there's multiple of these guys. And when you incorporate them in a microbiome that supports or is supported by these prebiotics, these phytonutrients, they actually flourish. And then we started to learn that, hey, acromantia is associated with GLP-1. And, hey, there's this whole thing called the GLP-1 drug, but they're not exactly the same. Injecting GLP-1 is very different from how the gut makes GLP-1. It's a totally different game.

Yeah, much sooner trust my acromantia bacteria than no Nordisk, no shade against people who need that drug. I have a family member on it. But yeah, I mean, the fact that we can manufacture this in our own guts, I think that's so

empowering. and you don't need just acromantia. There's multiple different bacteria that make GLP-1. The difference is we want that sustained approach over time rather than flooding the system. Now, look, I'm a big fan of the GLP-1 category of medications because they are saving a lot of people's lives who have never, ever would have been saved before. I

agree with that revolutionary drug it

is it is it is tectonic plate moving i mean we are seeing something that we see once in a generation maybe antibiotics might have been the last time we saw something like this that's such a profound impact on our health span well at that time it was our lifespan now we're seeing something that potentially could have an impact on our lifespan and our health span the problem is that we're we're dismissing everything else that goes along with it sure you take these medications you'll eat less food you'll consume less and then what happens when you stop and what are you doing during that whole time to provide your body with the nutrients that it needs? If you're eating less, Americans are already nutrient deficient, or insufficient, I should say, or compromised. Now you're decreasing the calorie intake by 1,000 calories, and I'm sure all those calories are not coming from voluminous foods which take up a lot of space in your stomach which are going to make you feel more full because you make it harder for you to eat so instead of having three servings of broccoli you can only take one serving and that has a trickle-down effect well

i'm sure i'm sure many people who are now leaning on these drugs as a crutch i mean they're just simply eating less of the crap that they were eating to begin with the nutrient bereft vending machine crap that no i mean not to be like you know condescending but i mean because there's there's obviously a lot more than choice that goes into this there's socioeconomic issues but like i mean today 60 percent of the calories that your average person is consuming comes from ultra processed foods. And I'm sure that among certain pockets, like that proportion is even higher.

Absolutely. Shift workers, special forces, first responders, they have to consume these foods because I don't know, whole foods and healthy food options and Erwan are not open at three in the morning. It's just not possible. So we, we have to understand that there's certain circumstances where these things are necessary and helpful. I just don't want us to lose sight of the long-term goal of getting people to a healthier lifestyle. I have seen a lot of people out drink a lot of these medications, not alcohol, certainly alcohol will do it, which is one issue, but high dense smoothies or high dense shakes where you can throw a bunch of peanut butter and, you know, coconut oil and all this other stuff to get the calories in, but you're not getting all the other nutrients that you would typically get. And the goal is how do we get people to identify these healthy food options on their own? Because we see such a scarcity of nutrient replete people in our society today. It's a very big issue. And I think it's going to bite us in the butt in several years when we start seeing that these nutrient problems are a big deal.