How NSM Differs from Traditional Mindfulness

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin sits down with meditation teacher and social entrepreneur Dr. Fleet Maull to explore how Neuro-Somatic Mindfulness (NSM) intersects with psychedelic therapy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-324/?ref=278 

Fleet shares his journey from a 14-year federal prison sentence—where he founded the first prison hospice program and led daily meditation groups—to developing NSM, a radically embodied, neuroscience- and trauma-informed approach to practice.

He explains how NSM trains five key brain networks, why embodiment quiets a noisy mind more reliably than “thinking about” the breath, and how pairing NSM with ketamine or psilocybin can help shift insights from state to trait. The conversation offers a grounded roadmap for practitioners and seekers who want deeper stability, safety, and integration in expanded-state work.

Fleet Maull, PhD, CMT-P is an author, meditation teacher, mindset coach, and social entrepreneur working at the intersection of personal and social transformation. He is the founder & CEO of Heart Mind Institute, which integrates Western science with contemplative wisdom across trauma healing, resilience, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, and conscious entrepreneurship. While serving a 14-year federal sentence (1985–1999), he founded Prison Mindfulness Institute and National Prison Hospice Association, catalyzing national movements in contemplative rehabilitation and end-of-life care. A senior Dharma teacher in Tibetan Buddhism and a Zen Roshi, Dr. Maull developed Neuro-Somatic Mindfulness (NSM), a deeply embodied, trauma-informed practice for healing and awakening.

*This October 14–19, 2025, Paul will also co-host Heart Mind Institute’s free online Microdosing & Psychedelic Retreats Summit, featuring 35+ global leaders including Paul Stamets, Deepak Chopra, and James Fadiman. Register free via the links below.

Highlights

• Why embodiment beats “thinking about” the breath
• Prison as practice: hospice, service, and sobriety
• What is Neuro-Somatic Mindfulness (NSM)?
• DMN vs. task-positive network in practice
• Training five neural networks for resilience
• From state to trait: integration by design
• NSM with low-dose ketamine: retreat outcomes
• Rigidity, chaos, and the Goldilocks zone

Episode Links

• FleetMaull.com: https://www.fleetmaull.com/
• Heart Mind Institute: https://www.heartmind.co/
• Microdosing & Psychedelic Retreats Summit (Free Registration):  https://thethirdwave.co/wp/?bwfan-link-trigger=9662151721791b9c6c99a7d8adb5929c 

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout