Interplay Between FDA, NIH, and CDC Leaders

In this episode, Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent unpack what feels like a turning point for U.S. public health: the rapid erosion of scientific norms inside the FDA and CDC. Sparked by a leaked memo claiming pediatric COVID vaccine deaths, the conversation traces how unsubstantiated assertions, selective data interpretation, and performative outrage are now shaping vaccine policy.

They examine the backlash from former FDA leaders, the misuse of safety databases, and the growing pattern of framing ambiguity as proof of harm. The discussion moves beyond COVID to show how this approach now threatens long-standing vaccines like hepatitis B—despite decades of evidence and dramatic reductions in disease.

At its core, the episode argues this isn't about transparency or restoring trust. It's about power, spectacle, and ideology replacing evidence. When regulators prioritize narratives over data, the real risk isn't hidden side effects—it's the collapse of public confidence in the systems meant to protect children and public health.

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