Which Trust Is Most Overlooked and Scalable?

In this episode of Business Lunch, Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss explain how the classic four-stage buying journey has collapsed into one moment—and why trust is the lid that keeps prospects “popping” in your pot. They unpack three forms of trust—Identity, Competence, and Proximity—with sharp wins and public flops (Nike, Sephora, Peloton, DSW, Starbucks, Apple, United). You’ll get simple creative frameworks to turn short-form content into instant, in-channel conversions and a 14-day sprint to prove it on a small budget.

Highlights

• “It’s not a funnel anymore—it’s a popcorn popper. Your audience are kernels heating at different speeds. Trust is the lid that keeps them popping for you.”
• “Competence trust means the brand ‘gets me’—often better than I can describe myself.”
• “Employees outperform celebrities for reach and credibility—because most buyers are employees.”
• “Frictionless is forgettable. Add desirable friction that helps buyers name their pain and act.”
• “If you can’t pivot your model, bolt trust into your media: mirror-micro-media, why-what-where, people-place-proof.”

Mentioned in This Episode

Three Trust Types (MAP mnemonic):

• M – Identity trust: Mirror → Micro → Media
• A – Competence trust: “Answer” with Why → What → Where
• P – Proximity trust: People → Place → Proof

Competence wins & misses: Nike’s “Why do it?” repositioning; Sephora tutorials lifting AOV; Peloton’s 2019 holiday ad backlash.

Proximity plays: DSW AR try-ons; Starbucks barista TikToks; Apple retail specialists; cautionary tale—United Airlines viral incidents.

Localization tactics: regional currency/sites, geo-specific visuals (city skylines), and micro-influencers by market.

KPI effects: higher AOV/retention/loyalty from competence; higher LTV from proximity; employee posts driving outsized reach.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – The collapsed customer journey: from funnel to popcorn popper (trust as the lid)
• 04:00 – Recap: Identity trust (mirror, micro, media)—and why episodes stand alone but compound
• 07:30 – Competence trust: the brand that “gets me” (Nike shift, Sephora demos) + Peloton misread
• 14:20 – Framework for competence: Why → What → Where (myth-bust, demo, direct CTA)
• 17:30 – Example: 30-sec tax advisory myth-buster → LinkedIn/Reels → consult link → track AOV
• 20:10 – Proximity trust: employees, in-place context, show real proof (DSW AR, Starbucks, Apple)
• 24:10 – Employee content > celebrity polish; make it authentic, even shot on phone
• 26:00 – 14-day Trust Sprint and MAP recap; why proximity is overlooked yet most scalable

Takeaways for Operators

• Stop chasing linear funnels; engineer trust in-channel so action can happen immediately.
• Use Why → What → Where to collapse steps: name the pain, show the fix, drop the link.
• Turn staff into a media network: People → Place → Proof with incentives and simple tracking.
• Localize by currency, domains, visuals, accents, micro-influencers—it quietly multiplies conversion.
• Run a 14-day sprint: baseline CAC/AOV → recruit 3 customers + 3 insiders → record shorts → post/boost winners → re-measure.
• Remember MAP: Mirror-Micro-Media; Answer (Why-What-Where); People-Place-Proof. Build trust, and the journey collapses in your favor.

🎧 Whether you’re in B2B services or retail, this playbook turns everyday posts into high-trust, one-step conversions—without celebrity budgets.

CONNECT 

• Ask Roland a question HERE.

RESOURCES:

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Mentioned in this episode:

Join Roland & Ryan at Get Scalable Live

If you’re a founder, CEO, or operator running a 7- or 8-figure business, Get Scalable Live was built for you.

This is not your typical business event. It’s 3 days of hands-on strategy, real-world frameworks, and next-level networking with the smartest operators in the game.

🗓 November 18–20, 2025

📍 San Diego, CA

🎉 Hosted by Ryan Deiss, Roland Frasier, and Richard Lindner

🎧 As a Business Lunch listener, you get 25% off your ticket.

Use code LUNCH at checkout.

Get Scalable Live

Mentioned in this episode:

Join Roland & Ryan at Get Scalable Live

If you’re a founder, CEO, or operator running a 7- or 8-figure business, Get Scalable Live was built for you. This is not your typical business event. It’s 3 days of hands-on strategy, real-world frameworks, and next-level networking with the smartest operators in the game. 🗓 November 18–20, 2025 📍 San Diego, CA 🎉 Hosted by Ryan Deiss, Roland Frasier, and Richard Lindner 🎧 As a Business Lunch listener, you get 25% off your ticket. Use code LUNCH at checkout.

Get Scalable Live