I was thinking the

same thing because Lauren, we went to dinner last night and Lauren, bear, paws swiped a massive glass of red wine all over Tina. And if you were wearing, I don't know. We will both find that out. If you were wearing that last night, we would have had a little bit of a different scenario on our heads.

You know what's not good for focus and memory? Wine. We literally did the opposite last night.

This is true. This is true. But it was fun.

This episode is going to be all about focus and memory, how we're less focused than ever and how we can improve our focus and memory. I think just start off. Let's just give a quick intro to the audience. You guys have been on four times because the episodes have been so successful, but just like a little, a little blurb about each of you before we get into it.

I'm Tina Anderson. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Just Thrive. My background was in litigation for many years. And then I went into a family pharmaceutical business where we kind of got dismayed by a lot of the abuses in the pharmaceutical industry. And we wanted to do something that was more in line with how we lived our lives with our three children. And so we dove into the field of gut health and researched and we were able to license these very exclusive strains of probiotics, which I know your audience has already come to know. And from there, Just Thrive was born. And it's been the most gratifying career journey I've ever been on.

So I'm Karen Christian. I'm a research microbiologist. I've spent most of my career doing research and development and innovation in the world of nutritional science. So a lot of focus on the gut, of course, as a microbiologist because we have all these microbes that dictate how we function. And so my goal is to understand who they are, what they do, and how do we work with them in order to optimize our life. I started working with Tina, I don't know, but 10 years ago at least. At least. And finding brands that are really focused on science and research is really my goal. And then working with them to bring the science and research to it. And then education.

I spend a lot of time talking. And for those of you that are newer listeners or maybe missed the last episodes with these two, I'll link them in the show notes or we'll link them in the show notes and make sure because they're phenomenal episodes, especially if you're interested in the topic of gut health and all sorts of stuff we've done. And do they've been really successful episodes? So we'll link them. But anyways, guys, welcome back to the show.

I want to discuss the underlying cause of why people are less focused than ever. Like, what is it coming from? Because everyone says, I have ADD. I can't focus. I can't multi like, why is that? Well, I think what we're seeing

is that these little devices called smartphones are inducing a sort of ADHD in society. I mean, we are so distracted more than we ever have been in history before. And when you think about just the device itself, it takes us to thousands of different places within a matter of minutes. So we're constantly being distracted between email, we get an email, we get a Slack message, notifications are on our text messages. We're getting text messages. We're just distracted as a society from, you know, societal demands, home demands. We're working from home. That's another big one. There's way more distractions at home. I mean, I'm aging myself right now, but 30 years ago, I'd be in my office. The only distraction I had was someone knocking on my office door. You know, now we're working on a spreadsheet and you get a text notification, you slack comes through and we're just, we're distracted.

It's funny because my daughter and I yesterday were watching home videos of me when I was a little girl and I'm watching the way my mom was engaging with us as babies. And she's so focused on doing that singular task. And now it's like, even when we're with our kids at home, there's 6 million things to do. And it's a different energy. She didn't have a phone to pick up or someone to text or emails to respond to. It's like she was like

really like present. And you almost can

sense it. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And to answer that question from a science perspective, right? So what is happening with our brain? So Tina mentioned all these distractions. The way we're wired and the way our brain is supposed to work, there are these neurotransmitters that elicit activity within us, especially activity that's good for us, right? So dopamine, for example, dopamine is a substance that's largely made in the gut that functions in the brain. And the big effect of dopamine is to give you focus, attention to something, and make you feel elation when you when you reward yourself with the act that you do that's a benefit to you. So for example, when we eat food, we get a dopamine rush, right? And the reason for that is your body's trying to tell you, hey, this is a good thing. Make sure you go out and eat food. If you work on something and you're diligently building something, you get a dopamine rush. And that's your body telling this is good for you. Now, that's supposed to happen at a certain level throughout the day. When we have this overstimulation, what's happening is we're creating so much dopamine release throughout our day and our brain that the levels that we need to feel something keep increasing, right? So it's no different than like insulin resistance or leptin resistance in weight loss issues. We can develop this dopamine resistant type of issue where we need more and more dopamine to feel the effects of it. Now, on top of that, we've got inflammation. Inflammation is damaging the brain's ability to use dopamine. A lot of that inflammation comes in the gut comes from all the toxins and things that we experience and stress that we experience throughout the day. So not only are we stimulating this dopamine as a stimulant all day long through all of these devices and all that, but on top of that, we can't utilize dopamine as well. So between the two, we're constantly fighting to stop their dopamine response. And so when you look at things like Adderall or Vivance or Ritalin, they're all dopaminergic substances. The way they work in the brain to try to increase focus is it releases more dopamine and releases no epinephrine, which is a stress hormone, which gets you to focus and pay attention on things. So that's what's happening scientifically in the brain.

Adderall is being prescribed more than ever or the other versions that you just said. If you had a kid that was prescribed to Adderall and you know everything you know, what are you going to do before you even entertain if you entertain an Adderall prescription? Yeah, and I wouldn't entertain it. And the reason I wouldn't entertain it is because

it becomes almost a lifelong crutch, right? Because what the Adderall is doing is it's artificially stimulating the release of dopamine and epinephrine. So it's giving an artificial outcome. Now it does improve function, right? Absolutely. But do I want my child having that issue and having to use that crutch for the rest of their lives? That is the risk that you're facing. So my mind, I go, okay, what is wrong? Number one, they're probably overstimulated to begin with, right? So can we dampen some of the overstimulation? Like there's too many devices they're doing too many things. They're not having any downtime. You're talking about when your mom was interacting with you, right? Am I focused enough on them, right? Am I giving them one-on-one focus time without any other distraction so that they can build that mechanism in their brain to focus and enhance on something? Are they getting rewards from tasks appropriately if they sit down and draw something, right? Are they getting elation or rewards from that so that their brain knows if I focus on this task and I get it done, this is good, right? There's a benefit to me there. Then on top of that, I would go, what's going on with their gut? Because they may not be producing enough dopamine. A good amount of dopamine is actually producing the gut. So they might have inflammation or leaky gut. So they're not producing enough dopamine. And then are they sleeping enough? Are they protecting the brain enough so that the brain can actually utilize dopamine? Because if you have inflammation, you have damage to the brain that occurs throughout the day, you can't utilize the dopamine you're making. So those would be the few things I'd start looking at before considering the prescription. Some cases, maybe you need to use it. No judgment, right? We need to do what we need to do to get by. But that's how I would look at it.

You mentioned that our kids are watching us be distracted and us not focused. Yeah. I think that's a big one because kids are always watching us. I call my daughter Big Eye. Yeah.

She's always watching everything.

But they're always watching everything. Do you think that's a huge part of their sort of like mirroring our behavior?

Yeah. So one of the most important things is parents. We can say what we want. We can lecture them all. We want all that. It's the modeling that's the most important, right? We know that. And that's throughout the animal kingdom, every species, the parents model behavior for the child. And the modeling creates the neurotransmitter networks or the networks in the brain to gear the child towards behavior. And I noticed this myself, right? Because it's hard for me to watch TV without looking on my phone, right? And I noticed this and I'm conscious of this from time to time, I'm going to go, I'm watching something that is entertaining me. And still, I'm looking at my phone for stuff, right? Which is, that's just so strange to me. And my kids noticed and they pointed out, right? They go, Dad, why you're not even watching. You're looking at your phone, right? And I'm like, I noticed that. And that modeling absolutely creates networks in their brain that show them that this is how you function, right?

And they do the same thing. Yeah, you know, I think one of the downsides too to this device, and I don't know if you guys feel the same, there is this like, artificial, artificial sense of urgency and all things. Yes. And I, you know, Lauren and I didn't have smartphones until we got out of school. And I just never, when I look back on my life and maybe you can relate, as older people have table, I never felt as much sense of urgency when I was younger. Like something would come through, I wouldn't see it in my email until I got on a computer and looked at it. I know that strange people were like, what do you mean? Like most people get their email and out of their phone. Like there was a time when you had to get on a computer to see if you got anything. Yeah. Or something happens, you know, going way back and like you'd have to listen to a voicemail at home or you don't feel like answered. And so like you had all this time and I feel like it's creating this big public sense of anxiety because everything feels so urgent. When really it's not, it's just people are able to get to you much faster and you're able to see the message much quicker.

I do think though that is that the power lies in the person that's holding the phone and you have to take extreme accountability around your phone and make boundaries. And I think we can point and blame and say, and this is not my fault, but at the end of the day, you're the user. So for me, I look at it like a sign on a shop that says closed for the night. Like it's

closed. What I think though, people like there's just many people that just aren't aware that they're exhibiting these behaviors and I like we've all slowly been lulled into it. You know what I mean? Like these phones just get faster and faster and more capable, more capable. Now we're wearing headsets on our face to run around who knows that's only going to get faster and faster and you know, smaller and smaller. And so I think it's a it's a weird like you can't resist technology. And it's part of the human existence. We're going to have to use these tools. But I think it's very easy to slip into a pattern of behavior that you're unaware of where all of a sudden you're running around anxious, unfocused, feeling like everything in the world's an emergency that has to be answered right away. You know, the gnarliest is when it comes in and says like urgent email and you're reading like, why is this so urgent? Like, you know, you're urgent. We got to get this paid. I'm like, you know, the company will survive if you wait till Monday, like, you know, and if not, we got bigger problems. You know, I just look at this stuff now. I'm like, not everything is really urgent. And I think we throw that word around now way too freely.

Yeah. And I think what we're seeing too is that because we're doing this, we have shorter attention spans. I mean, we used to have an average attention span of like two and a half minutes. Now it's less than 40 seconds. And of course, that's just going down. And that lack of attention span is the reason why we're spending all these crazy hours at work. It's not because we're working more or more efficiently. We're just distracted throughout the days. And now we're working 24 seven. So to Lauren's point, I mean, we definitely need to be working on disciplining ourselves more with our phone, but most people aren't.

Yeah, I think it's all starts with awareness. You just have to be aware, like catch yourself in the moment of what you're doing. Like, do I really need to walk into the bathroom with my phone? Or is that excessive? Yeah. Can I put my phone down when I wake up? Like it's like Ichabod Crane when people wake up. It's like they roll over and like slam the phone in their face. There's

something though, we talked about this last night in relation to children and children feeling okay, coming home and like maybe missing that party. Yeah. And I think it's ingrained in all of us to feel like I can't miss out on whatever's going on. And we do the same thing on the phone. Like I have to see what's going on throughout every hour of the day to make sure that I'm participating in society. And I don't miss anything. Or maybe control. No, I think it's a behavioral thing where humans don't want to feel left out or like they will miss something. The older I get the more I want to

miss out. Yeah. And the neurotransmitter component to that is dopamine. Yeah. So our phone gives us that dopamine kick, right? And we're constantly seeking that. And that's why it's addictive. That's why scrolling is addictive, because it gives you that little bit of dopamine kick. And to me, that underlying issue as to why we want or need that dopamine kick, that's the part that scares me a little bit. Right. So when when Tina, when we first talked about doing a memory and cognition product, the part that interested me about it was why is it that people need a memory and cognition product? Why is it that people need neurological stimulants, right? We all use stimulants coffee. I was just drinking coffee earlier. And I like it because it is a stimulant, right? Nicotine. And then of course, all the prescription versions of this. Why do we need it? And what does that say about what's happening to our brains? That's the part that keeps me up a little bit at night, because what what you start to realize when you look at the biology of it is that we're all waking up every morning with the brain that's slightly more damaged than the brain we had the day before. Right? Slightly amateur, right? And this is why we see dementia, Alzheimer's, and all those rates increasing dramatically. The early, early stages of that are memory, cognitive dysfunction, focus, and then anxiety and depression as well. The pathologies of all those things are very, very similar. Right? So the part that really keeps me up at night is looking at data that shows 20 and 30 year olds, when they do cognitive dysfunctional tests, they have measured levels of reduced cognitive function, right? When they're supposed to be at their peaks, right? They're they can measure them the same way they measure it in 60 year olds who are undergoing dementia. The same kind of dysfunction is measurable in 20 and 30 year olds, but we don't necessarily address it until we're in our 60s, right? So what is the underlying root cause that we're starting to see that so much younger? Yeah, so the big, the big thing is a couple of things. One is inflammation and inflammatory damage. Number two is the inability of the brain to repair itself throughout the at night, especially, right? So we're not sleeping enough. Sleep is really important to repair the brain providing the right type of cellular activation. So you've got these mechanisms in the brain that turn on things like glutathione, glutathione is a very powerful antioxidant. It helps in a neutralize of free radicals and the oxidation that occurs in the brain throughout the day. Stress is another driver of damage to the brain and inflammation. And then of course, the overt distractions, right? The overt distractions stoke too much dopamine, too much epinephrine, too much serotonin in some cases as well. And all of those things are overstimulating to the brain without enough rest and recovery.

How much sleep should we be

getting? So it varies from person to person, but I would say that deep sleep. So I wear the or ring, right? So it's a great way for me to keep track of what I'm actually doing from a sleep perspective. I think you need a minimum of around our hour and 10 minutes of deep sleep and around an hour and 30 minutes of REM sleep. That's where most of the recovery is happening. For me, I can get by fine with around six and a half to seven hours of sleep on a regular basis. And then I can go several days with four or five hours of sleep and still be functioning. But that's just that's unique to me because I think I function well with adrenaline. My mom's like that, right? So my mom is she would say 72, but she's probably 74, 75. And so she she is a physician. She runs an ICU and an ER night shift. Oh, well, that's a lot of cortisol. Yeah, that's a lot of cortisol, right? She's the only attending on the floor in both the ICU, which is like a 30 bed ICU. Wow. And an emergency department overnight. So she does a 7 p.m. to like 9 a.m. shift. Damn. Seven days a week. Whoo. Right. Wait, how is

that possible? Seven

days a week? Seven days a week. And then she takes seven days off. Seven days on, seven days off. But she keeps shifting. So one week, she's sleeping in the daytime. The next very next week, she's sleeping at night. But she runs fine because she runs on adrenaline really well, even at a her age, right? And so that's kind of like me. I do the same thing. Yeah. Like when this one

is a hell of you, so awake in the morning, I don't know. I just say

he woke up this morning. It was like, I was like, get back in the back in the box. He's talking mid sentence. I'm like, I got a,

I got a cop.