I

mean, luckily for them, they've got the same head right now. So there is someone who can weigh up those trade-offs. So that's the history of the war as you see it right now. What's next in terms of what you're doing?

Right. So I've applied to the PhD program at King's College, War Studies Department. Yeah. So I've applied to the PhD program. Hopefully I get accepted. So my PhD proposal is I wanted to do basically more of the same, right? So I've looked at sort of the Russian side of the war for the first, for my thesis was the first 18 months. I've been continuing to monitor it up till now. For my PhD, the proposal is to continue to monitor it, to look at the broader long-term trends, but also to look at what the Ukrainians are doing.

Right. So you've looked just one-sided so far. Right.

And then my ultimate hope is that this will allow some insight into the principles of cyber conflict. And the reason I'm hoping to find that is that the Russians have a long history with a hierarchical system that's well organized, that's quite well understood. And they've directed that towards doing war. And that's one approach. The Ukrainians have done something else, right? They don't have that existing infrastructure of cyber command or, you know, a GRU and stuff like that. They didn't have big cyber departments. So they've been building that up and they've done it differently than the Russians have. So they had the Cyber IT Army, which was one thing. So, you know, one of the the things you could look at is how do you integrate civilian volunteers into your cyber force? What do you do with people who just show up and want to take part in your war? That's a tough question. So what I'm hoping to find is that the Russians, with their hierarchical approach, have encountered certain problems that they've solved in a certain way. And that the Ukrainians with their more decentralized approach have encountered the same problems, but they've solved it a different way, which would then suggest that the problem is innate to the space, not a result of the system, right? That there's something fundamental about cyber conflict that these two different approaches both encounter and solve in their own ways. And that should say something about cyber conflict. Right.

Well, Grapp, thanks a lot for taking us through your thesis. Long time listeners of Between Two Nerds will recognize that they've been getting those pearls of wisdom over the last couple of years. And good luck with the PhD.

Thank you very much, Tom.