So in chapter seven, in assemblage, the remix economy, I love your encouragement of the borrowing or even stealing of ideas. And so much of the creative space frowns on reusing and remixing other people's types of content. There was a rapper that you mentioned that, it was in the first chapter. I don't remember what his name was, who doesn't, he doesn't know how to read music.

And he just

kind of, oh, for all Williams. Yeah, there you go. And he just kind of, he's an assembler of people. And there were some other great examples in chapter seven. But my question for you is how can us, how can we as brand designers navigate what feels like a really crowded space of designs and ideas and Pinterest? And you even in the last, in the conclusion, talk about, hey, find ideas outside of the Internet if you can, which I love. How can we navigate that space and use and get inspired by others designs in an ethical way? Yeah.

Well, in all fields. So the chapter you are referring to, copy, transform combined is to say that I'm sure many of our listeners suffer from an imposter syndrome and are worried about plagiarism and stealing and all those things. Those can be valid concerns, but it's overblown. In most fields, we create from by remixing existing knowledge. Star Wars, for example, is not as original as it seems. Star Wars was inspired from a book I was published a few years prior. Apple, we all worship, well, we all in the branding and marketing industry, we all love Apple and by all means, it's a great brand. Apple did not invent the MP3 player. Apple did not invent the mouse. The mouse was invented by IBM. Apple did not invent the recycling bin, which I believe was a HP invention. We can go on and on. In music, Feral Williams is a, I believe, 12 times Grammy Award winner sold millions, dozens of millions of records. And under oath, on the record, Feral Williams as part of a lawsuit versus the Marvin Gaye estate, Feral Williams had to admit under oath that he does not know how to read music. D.J.'s that many of us like, if you pay attention or if you like, electronic stance music, wherever it is, I don't know, Calvin Harris or David Gator or plug one D.J. by definition assemble sounds from other artists. And your question was, how can we stand out in that crowded field of Pinterest and all that? Yeah, everyone has access to Pinterest. I do have a Pinterest account. And everyone can wake up this morning and think, wow, pink is trending because of the Paul Smith world a few years ago and now because of a Barbie movie. So if you're trying to compete on pink, that's going to be a little bit difficult for you to cut through the clutter. What's going to be insightful, what's going to be valuable to your audience is what's pin you can put on pink. How can you adapt pink to new products or what shade of pink you can use to communicate a specific feeling or specific emotion about the brand and how you will use pink as an inspiration as opposed to trying to make everything pink around you, which anybody can do that, including this AI service from Wayfarer that you described before. And the point is to be curious, to look at influences, of course on Pinterest, but also in the arts, in music, in cooking, in writing. And by doing so, combine something that is new and again, that is quirky and that is intriguing. Obviously, I endeavor to practice what I preach whereby I bring the likes of DJ Khaled and Pharrell Williams and Jeff Koons and Picasso to book on marketing. There is a paragraph that's called what Picasso knew and all marketers need to learn. I love that. I

love that paragraph. That was amazing. So we can look

at how Picasso built his personal brand and a wide range of products which made him very successful. He started very poor, but he died very rich and beyond money made him very visible, very successful as an artist. And we can translate that concept to marketing. So once again, I think that's what's valuable to your client. Something that is intriguing. Something that is repurposed. Something that is different. What is not valuable to your client is to copy and paste the Barbie shade of pink, whatever the Pantone color is and to blast it everywhere and everything you

do. Fantastic answer. And I tend to get sucked into the Pinterest wheel where I feel like there's just the same things coming up over and over and over again. And so I love your advice to diversify the places where you're sourcing your inspiration. And we've got several episodes about finding creative inspiration and we talk about that all the time. And so I've definitely been leaning more into physical books about design to help inspire me. Counterprint.co.uk is a fantastic bookseller. And so if anyone out there is wanting to just turn to something more physical to inspire them, inspire their work, then I'm sorry that I'm telling you guys about Counterprint because you're going to want to spend all your money on them. But fantastic, fantastic advice to kind of not be afraid to remix other's ideas, but to take everything we've talked about before, our own history, our perspective, what makes us tick, what makes us special and infuse that into that remix, which is what is going to be valuable to our

clients. And Jen, you said, when I go on Pinterest, I feel it is the same content that's I'm exposed to over and over again. Well, you don't feel it is the same thing. And that's because of the algorithm. We have this saying in the industry that is the best place to hide a dead body is page two of Google, right? And the reason why in the conclusion of the book, I encourage people to stop Google and things don't get me wrong. Google is our Pinterest for that matter of what's our fantastic tools. There's no doubt about it. However, it gives you this false instant satisfaction gratification that you discovered something and chances are that you didn't discover anything or else it wouldn't come up in the first page. To your point, by the way, thank you for pointing our listeners to this website. It's more intriguing and so valuable to open your thinking and your inspiration to other things. Also, it's good to stay current and to know what's going on this weekend. We can talk about the Barbie movie that's great. And it's as valuable to bring things from the past and understand how they can influence what you do today and in the future. I'm going back to my electronics dance music example whereby the most successful songs today are sampled from hits from the 90s or in design for our listeners today that can see the video. There is on my desk that juicy, saliff juicer that's been designed by Philip Stark for a lessy, what, at least 30 years ago. By the way, it's completely useless because you cannot use it to juice your lemon or else it will damage the juicer. It's also out which is expensive because that thing retails for $150. So I spent $150 on a juicer that I cannot use to juice lemons. That is not the point. What can we learn from this design and what is it to never green? Meaning why is it as relevant today as it was 30 years ago and maybe we can see this matte finish to it and maybe we can see this harmonious roundy shape which we know in design roundy shapes are more joyful to people because they communicate a sense of comfort and reassurance. There are all the things that we can learn from the subject and ultimately maybe you might be able to leverage that kind of rocket type of design for a direct mail campaign in terms of a design limit, in terms of a brand asset.

Fantastic example.