27min chapter

#598: Primatologist Isabel Behncke on Play, Sexual Selection, and Lessons from Following Bonobos for 3,000 Kilometers in the Jungles of Congo

The Tim Ferriss Show

notes

CHAPTER

Bonobos and the Roots of Evolutionary Thought

This chapter takes listeners on a journey through the behaviors of bonobos, contrasting their playful social dynamics with the aggression of chimpanzees. It also examines the foundational contributions of figures like Conrad Lorenz, Charles Darwin, and Erasmus Darwin to the field of evolutionary biology, blending anecdotes with historical context. The chapter culminates in a discussion on the implications of sexual selection and modern interpretations of evolutionary theories.

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Transcript

Episode notes

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Isabel Behncke (@IsabelBehncke) is a field primatologist and applied evolutionary ethologist who studies social behavior in animals (including humans) to understand our urgent challenges with each other and the planet.

Isabel grew up at the foothills of the Andes mountains in Chile, where she developed a life-long love for nature and wildness as well as culture and the arts. An explorer-scientist, she is the first South American to follow great apes in the wild in Africa. She walked more than 3,000 km (~1864 miles) in the jungles of Congo for her field research observing the social lives of wild bonobo apes, who, together with chimpanzees, are our closest living relatives. Isabel documented how bonobos play freely in nature and has extended this research to study how human apes play—at Burning Man, other festivals, and in everyday life. Isabel has observed how play is at the root of creativity, social bonding, and healthy development, findings that have relevance in education, innovation, complex risk assessments, and freedom.

Isabel holds a BSc in Zoology and an MSc in Nature Conservation, both from University College London, an MPhil in Human Evolution from Cambridge University, and a PhD in Evolutionary Anthropology from Oxford University. She has won several distinctions for her public communication and knowledge integration, which range in formats from TED, WIRED, the UN, BBC, and Nat Geo to rural schools in Patagonia and traveling buses of schoolchildren in Congo. She is a senior fellow of the Gruter Institute, a TED fellow, and currently advises the Chilean government, working on long-term strategies in science, technology, innovation, and knowledge for Chile’s president. She can be found in Chile and New York City.

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[08:11] Baco and Jiro

[13:05] What is an applied evolutionary ethologist?

[15:43] Lorenz vs. Skinner

[18:23] The brilliance of consilience

[19:11] Humboldt vs. Darwin and the origins of evolutionary thinking

[29:42] Recent revolutionary thoughts about evolution

[36:16] Complexity and niche construction

[41:33] What’s more fun: a barrel of chimpanzees or a barrel of bonobos?

[49:19] Chimpanzee geography

[59:29] Magnificent bonobos

[1:02:11] Female mammal problems and solutions

[1:09:17] Sexual dimorphism