In the same way, if we think about interviewing enterprise customers or users, right? Now, sometimes the UX team organizes those calls. I always want a product manager on the call too, and we don't want them to speak. We wanted to listen because product and UX and engineering really, we have different brains, we hear different things,. Sometimes the product folks organize the calls and then we want to make sure that we've got a designer, we are a UXer, on the call in the room in real time. So there, I know it has to get done. I don't care who does it, right? Some organizations is one and the other it's easier or