Welcome to episode #964 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast.

Tamsen Webster is an expert of messaging and an architect of transformative communication. Over her 25-year career, Tamsen has helped leaders, from Harvard Medical School to Fidelity Investments, craft messages that don’t just resonate - they stick, long after the words are spoken. Her latest book, Say What They Can't Unhear - The 9 Principles of Lasting Change (she is also the author of Find Your Red Thread), is a guide to creating messages so compelling, they can’t be ignored. In our conversation, we explored her fresh take on persuasion, focusing on building understanding before asking for agreement - a concept so simple yet often overlooked. Tamsen revealed why storytelling still works (hint: our brains are wired for it) but also why it sometimes fails, especially when the story doesn’t align with the audience’s core beliefs. Her approach, rooted in science and steeped in empathy, pushes us to find common ground - not by oversimplifying the message, but by connecting with deeply held truths. Our dialogue covered everything from the evolution of storytelling to the resurgence of Socratic discourse in modern conversations, and even how polarization impacts how we communicate. But what struck me most was her ability to balance the rational with the emotional, showing that truly effective messaging requires both. Tamsen’s insights go beyond the typical “problem-solution” framework, offering a model that encourages dialogue, understanding, and long-term engagement. If you’ve ever struggled to present a big idea or faced resistance when trying to spark change, this episode is a masterclass in how to say what others can’t unhear. Enjoy the conversation...

• Running time: 1:07:50.
• Hello from beautiful Montreal.
• Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts.
• Listen and subscribe over at Spotify.
• Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation.
• Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook.
• Check out ThinkersOne.
• or you can connect on LinkedIn.
• ...or on Twitter.
• Here is my conversation with Tamsen Webster.
• Say What They Can't Unhear - The 9 Principles of Lasting Change.
• Find Your Red Thread.
• Message Design Institute.
• Follow Tamsen on X.
• Follow Tamsen on Instagram.
• Follow Tamsen on LinkedIn.
• This week's music: David Usher 'St. Lawrence River'.

Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Tamsen Webster and Her Work. (01:53) - The Evolution of Storytelling. (05:36) - Understanding the Structure of Stories. (07:59) - Why Stories Sometimes Fail. (10:06) - The Impact of Polarization on Storytelling. (12:25) - Beliefs and Their Role in Storytelling. (17:54) - Finding Common Ground in Communication. (20:35) - The Importance of Understanding in Persuasion. (24:56) - Permission Persuasion: A New Approach. (26:55) - Character Development in Storytelling. (30:48) - The Shift in Storytelling Techniques. (35:43) - Excavating Beliefs for Better Communication. (37:50) - Understanding Cause and Effect in Communication. (40:00) - The Challenge of New Ideas in a Saturated Market. (42:59) - The Importance of Long-Term Engagement. (45:53) - Exploring the Depth of Storytelling. (48:51) - The Return of Socratic Discourse. (53:09) - Bridging the Gap Between Rational and Emotional Understanding.