i have been arguing for about 15 years that there is a kind of ideology of putanism. The theory of history is that russia was robbed at the end of the soviet union, when it broke up. And this is actually how putin thinks the world works and it's the system he's tried to create inside russia. He doesn't believe in any spontaneity, in any natural activity, in anything grass roots. Most of the energy of the propaganda is not so much for things as against things. So they're against western democracy. Theyre looking constantly to expose and undermine western politics and european politics,. including all the institutions set up after the second world
Anne Applebaum is a staff writer for The Atlantic and a Senior Fellow of the Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University. In her books - most notably Red Famine: Stalin’s War on Ukraine and Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe she has chronicled the terrible human costs of past attempts by Russia to dominate countries in Central and Eastern Europe.
In this week’s conversation, Anne Applebaum and Yascha Mounk discuss the developing ideology of "Putinism," what it would look like for Ukraine to win the war, and how democracies can defend their values in a world of resurgent authoritarianism.
This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.
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