Experiences with Therapy and Reflection on Respect and Empathy

Podcast 357: Stories from the 60s, Part 1 Today’s podcast will be a little different. I had the good fortune to be alive in Palo Alto, California during the late 1960s. For me, it was a magical era of happenings, the Haight-Ashbury District in San Francisco, psychedelics, war protests, civil rights activity, cool music, learning about life, and cutting an awful lot of medical school classes! But what I learned on the streets was far more valuable in my later career as a psychiatrist, working with real people with real problems, than anything I learned in medical school. It was an era of magic, to be honest. In fact, to me, California has always had the feel of magic. And that magic is still alive and well, happening every day, at least in my life. Let me know if you like these stories. I shared them at my weekly Stanford training group, and publish the recording of that evening’s training session here, with trepidation. Some of the stories are pretty far out. If you like them, and want more, I have a lot more, which I’ve listed below. Just let me know, and I’ll gladly start babbling again. . .  IF I haven’t been arrested! If you’d like to see one of the R-rated but gorgeous Larry Keenan photos taken at my “Uptightness” happening, you can see it at this link: Look for the photo called “The Kiss.” https://www.larrykeenan.com/prints Larry Keenan, a brilliant young commercial photographer at the time, attended my “uptightness” happening and took many fantastic photos that day. Larry became a famed photographer of many of the greats of the “Hippy Era,” like Bob Dylan, Neil Cassady, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and a host of others. Sadly, Larry passed away several years ago, but I will always be grateful to him for the gorgeous and now-famous photos he created that day in the infamous but glorious 60’s! Warmly, david Part 1 (in this podcast) Psychodrama / encounter

1. David gets put down: Rob Krist’s encounter group
2. The return of tears: My first psychodrama marathon
3. The pompous professor: False front / tragic surprise

Spiritual

4. Desert experience: Sadness as celebration

Dating / Relationships / R-Rated

5. Having fun and making a movie: "Uptightness”

  Part 2 (not yet recorded: let me  know if you'd like a Part 2!) More Stanford stories not yet covered: let me know if interested!

6. Husain Chung and the crazy teen from LA: When a stallion wants to run
7. A frightening encounter with Vic Lovell: And a mentor’s advice
8. Threats from unwanted guests: Fighting back with paradox
9. Bar next to the Free University Coffee House: Outrageous works, even with Hell’s Angels
10. Inside the Free University Coffee House: How I met my wife
11. The day we bombed Cambodia: Triggering a riot at Stanford, beaten by police, motorcycle smashed to bits, handcuffed, arrest announced on the campus radio station, escaped
12. The bearded man on the quad near the Stanford student union—Telling me to “sit with open hands”
13. Ken Kesey and his merry pranksters in the Stanford student union—they were dressed in pajamas or clown outfits and Neil Cassady was juggling hammers)
14. The tape recorder experiment: Bizarre week, unexpected conclusion

Medical School

15. Stanford medical school interview: Unexpected outcome
16. The day that Gene Altman and I attended class: Totally weird
17. Broken jaw: Anger, fear, and intense pain that suddenly vanished
18. Getting kicked out of neuropathology class
19. Encounter at the Medical School: Psychiatry and Psychotherapy—Are they Relevant or Obsolete? Featuring Hussain Chung
20. Missing graduation ceremony: Didn’t pick up my diploma until years later
21. Homeless in Carmel Valley: Saved by Ramadan, Subud
22. Re-entry: The Highland Hospital Emergency Room

Dr. Allen Barbour’s Medical Outpatient Clinic

23. Hidden emotion 1: One of Stanford’s first coronary artery bypass patients
24. Hidden emotion 2: Doc, what happened? I’m not dizzy anymore!
25. Hidden emotion 3: Help! I need emergency surgery NOW!

 

Here’s the Stanford group feedback from group after telling stories 1 – 5 Positive Feelings about the Training   Not at all true Somewhat true Moderately true Very true Completely true N/A 1. I felt I could trust my trainer. 0 0 0 0 17 1 My trainer paid careful attention to what I said 0 0 0 0 7 11 My trainer critiqued my work in a sensitive manner. 0 0 0 0 7 11 I felt good about the training I received. 0 0 0 0 17 1 Overall, I was satisfied with my most recent training session. 0 0 0 0 17 1 Negative Feelings during Training   Not at all true Somewhat true Moderately true Very true Completely true Sometimes I felt uncomfortable during the training. 18 0 0 0 0 Sometimes I felt defensive during the training. 18 0 0 0 0 Sometimes I felt frustrated during the training. 18 0 0 0 0 Sometimes I felt anxious during the training. 18 0 0 0 0 Sometimes I felt insecure during the training. 16 2 0 0 0 Helpfulness of the Training   Not at all true Somewhat true Moderately true Very true Completely true N/A I expect to use these ideas with patients I am now treating 0 0 2 1 11 4 What I am learning seems useful in my clinical training. 0 0 1 2 13 2 My trainer and I are working together effectively. 0 0 0 2 10 6 The training was helpful to me. 0 0 0 1 16 1 I felt I was learning and growing during the training session. 0 0 0 1 16 1 Respectfulness and Safety of the Training   Not at all True Somewhat true Moderately true Very true Completely true N/A My trainer was sensitive to potentially relevant cultural, racial, religious, age, gender, or sexual identity issues that might impact the therapy. 1 0 2 0 13 2 My trainer created a safe and warm space for all identities. 1 0 1 0 14 2 Difficulties with the Questionnaire   Not at all true Somewhat true Moderately true Very true Completely true It was hard to be completely honest answering some questions. 16 1 0 0 1 My answers weren’t always completely honest. 16 1 0 0 1 Sometimes I did not answer the way I really felt inside. 16 1 0 0 1   Please describe what you specifically disliked about the training? What could have been improved? Were there some things you disagreed with or did not understand?

• Nothing
• N/A
• Was too short
• na
• I'm starting to catch on to the fact that David has read more than 3 books... Nerd. :)
• It is funny coming from David and I believe he used it affectionally... most of use won't get away with the term "Chainaman" perhaps Asian American
• Loved the group tonight
• n/a
• Nothing I disliked. My answer of "somewhat insecure" from above was about my comments and whether they were helpful or "good enough."

Please describe what you specifically liked about the training? What was the most helpful? Were there some things you learned?

• I really enjoyed learning from David's stories. Thank you for sharing these personal stories with us.
• I had been looking forward to the evening's stories but I didn't know emotional and impactful they would be. I was especially touched by David's & Cai's tears and appreciate how much they both shared. It had to be especially difficult to share over Zoom because sometimes it can sound flat. With most people muted it can be hard to hear the feedback from the audience but the connection still felt very powerful.
• I truly appreciate your openness and willingness to show your vulnerable side. Just like many others, I was deeply moved by your heartfelt tears as you shared stories about the woman you believed would succumb to cancer, your beautiful encounter with your wife Sara, and the journey of creating "Uptightness." You didn't have to let us into those deeply intimate and personal experiences, and for that, I am genuinely grateful.
• This was absolutely amazing! It couldn’t have been more special. Thank you Dr Burns! You are a national treasure and gift to us all. Can’t wait for the podcast so that I can re-live it
• exposure and being uncomfortable with adult stuff so silly but real for me
• I was touched by the depth of emotion David manifested in telling some of the stories, his deep compassion and humility, and the reality of celebration of sadness. I liked feeling closer to David both from his sharing deep feelings and by his telling about life events like how he met Melanie. It was cool to have stories illustrating powerful lessons and even some that illustrate the mundane (e.g. mostly not a lot happened when David spent a week disclosing every feeling).
• What a wonderful night. These stories brought that time period alive for me, and having not lived through that era, that was a real treat. The only thing I was surprised about, and a bit sad, was seeing that David appeared to be a little self-conscious or something. David, I hope I can reassure you that even though I was silent and didn't have any questions, you had my full attention. It was like watching a profound and entertaining movie. - Ed W
• I really loved hearing about the spiritual connections with others that you had, David. I also loved seeing the photos afterward and you showing us who you were talking about in your stories. What a beautiful, magical time!
• Some very interesting and very touching stories. Made me feel closer to the group and gave some insights into the 60s and the development of TEAM CBT
• That was beautiful. More and more I'm convinced therapy is art verified by science. This very human tradition of telling stories is so important to our work as therapists/people. I enjoyed this greatly. A two hour work of art I was fortunate enough to have experienced. Thank you, much love.
• It was mesmerizing and holy God listening to the stories now I understand how he could have come up with such an amazing Tool
• It was lovely to travel back in time and get snap shots of David's live in the 60s. I appreciated the tender moments of sadness and also the spiritual mystical moments. I like David even more knowing that his calling was to council people, and the journey he has taken to become a conventional healer. It is an honor to be part of this training, almost feels like a type of lineage.
• I mostly found it just very enjoyable and fun and salacious. But I also liked the tears and the parts about people hiding their suffering and how we all really suffer but often have a hard time showing it. That was beautiful.
• Fabulous! How wonderful to learn more about David, learn about his "weird" past and shadow side, and share in his authentic expression of intense feelings. He really opened up and it did make me feel closer to him! The desert story was inspirational to me, and Cai's story as well...I, too, love the book Siddartha. Interesting to learn of the origins of techniques such as Externalization of Voices and Downward Arrow. Really contextualizes it for me. Not to mention bringing the "magic" of California in the 60s back to life. Thank you! Left me yearning for more!
• It was a spellbinding evening, and it felt to me like we were right there with you, David, in the desert seeing the multicolored clouds with our tears flowing, or at the psychodrama marathon crying for the woman who was dying, or on in a field with you and lots of naked ladies at the "Uptightness" event. And now it makes so much sense to me how your methods like EoV and the Downward Arrow all grew out of these experiences you shared with us tonight of tapping deeply into that River of Emotions that you talk about. Thank you, David, for sharing this with us!
• Seeing David’s tears. Love him even more. Learned so much from the stories
• I liked this evening very much. I felt very close to you, David, and to the others who shared, and I felt honored to be a part of it. There were so many good stories. I think your story of being in the desert and the woman suddenly giving up drinking might be an example of a powerful prayer-- I know it sounds pretty goofy and I would have thought so too when I was an atheist not long ago, but I've had some experiences that have really led me to believe some seemingly goofy things.

Please describe what you learned in today’s group12 responses

• It was such a moving & emotional evening filled with incredible stories, some of which seem too wild to be true but you certainly had the pictures to back it up! Even though I'd been working with the pictures they really came to life after hearing the context and learning more about the people in them. Thank you!
• It was terrific to hear the origin story of the greatest psychotherapy approach ever developed
• the founding go team cbt
• I learned it is unnecessary to be uptight except for cinematic purposes.
• We are all connected and affect each other on an energetic level <3. Thank you, David!
• I need to think about all these things for a bit to say exactly.
• In simple words enlightening
• It's important to be more raw, more open to others' suffering. But also to have fun, be wild, take chances!
• David's amazing stories of his experiences in the 60s.
• How David discovered the River of Emotions and how to tap into it.
• How being open minded leads to great things including connection to others in kind and loving ways
• Too much to say

Thanks for listening today!, David and Rhonda