Episode Summary:

In Part 1 of this two-episode series, Aidan McCullen is joined by futurists Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio, co-authors of Navigating the Age of Chaos: A Sensemaking Guide to a BANI World That Doesn't Make Sense. The trio unpacks the BANI Framework — Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, Incomprehensible — and explores how it helps us make sense of a world where traditional models like VUCA no longer apply.

Discover how anxiety, complexity, systemic fragility, and incomprehensible change are reshaping our lives and futures — and what we can do to adapt and thrive in the face of it all.

Key Discussion Points:

From VUCA to BANI: Why old models fail

System fragility and the myth of stability

Psychological burnout in the age of anxiety

Non-linear risk and delayed cause-effect dynamics

Incomprehensibility and the collapse of trust in truth

Links & Resources:

🌐 Book: Navigating the Age of Chaos – https://ageofbani.com

📘 Bob Johansen – https://www.iftf.org

🧠 Jamais Cascio – https://www.openthefuture.com

🎙️ Sponsored by Kyndryl – https://kyndryl.com

🎓 Host and Irish Keynote Speaker Aidan McCullen and The Innovation Show is the first podcast to be recognised by Thinkers50, the global ranking body for management thinkers.

https://aidanmccullen.com

00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message

00:21 Reflecting on the Decade: 2015-2025

01:41 Introducing the B.A.N.I. Framework

02:24 Meet the Authors: Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio

04:29 The Evolution from VUCA to BANI

16:18 Understanding Brittle in BANI

30:14 Exploring Anxious in BANI

37:03 Alan Watts and the Timeless Nature of Anxiety

38:18 Resilience in the Face of Extinction

39:30 The Persistent Relevance of VUCA

39:52 The Unique Challenges of BANI

41:13 Interconnected Crises and Their Compounding Effects

44:30 The Participatory Panopticon and Surveillance

49:28 Non-Linearity and Climate Hysteresis

01:00:23 Stochastic Terrorism and Its Implications

01:02:44 Incomprehensibility in a BANI World

01:10:37 Conclusion and Further Resources

Coming Soon:

👉 Part 2: BANI Plus – Flipping the Framework Positive

Paula races the Ironman 70.3 World Championship in Marbella, Spain

That Triathlon Life Podcast

Working with competitors on the bike

The AI-powered Podcast Player