Chen: The experience of living as white is a lot about being an individual. Chen: To even be lumped into the group, that's what I think that's part of why when you call someone white parts of the injury is not just that whiteness is understood to be evil or exploitative but also like you're putting me in a group. Cen: So the people who have whiteness, they're like individuals, but other people's look at it and go, Oh, I got to get into that club, you know, so I can be so much more than myself.