Navigating Faith in the Political Arena: A 10-Point Guide | 5min snip from The Zeitcast with Jonathan Martin

Speaker 3
Didn't happen for the market for you? Well, there were bloody good players, but there was just someone who was
Speaker 6
better than them. Ah!
Speaker 3
I'd retire by then. I'm not even talking about that. I don't know, you have to say I was fortunate at the time because as you know, I hadn't scored for two years for England. Lean up to 96. So, you also need a manager that believes in you. Yeah. I think that's hugely important. And it's going to stick with you because inevitably at times, whatever level you're playing, you're going to have a bit of a dry spell as a forward. Did
Speaker 1
you ever sense, Alan, that Andy Cole, Robbie Fowler, all those people behind you are going, Why is he
Speaker 3
always picking just what it's saying? Did you get a feeling that they're... I could tell. Absolutely. Every time I could just see it in their faces thinking, why the fuck are you always playing for? Why is he not relieving him out? I'd deserve a chance or whatever. I could doubt we're righty and Les and Cole, and all of them must have hated me. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Would you have goody two shoes though, Alan? Would you want to know? It was like, Mannejus Pet. You know what? You know, he just
Speaker 4
played me one more time. I don't let
Speaker 2
you doubt Gaffa. I could just imagine you. No, I wasn't.
Speaker 6
Oh, look at those horrible guys.
Speaker 3
I was still scoring 37 in this season. That's why the manager believes me from my club, you see.
Speaker 6
Two shit. Yeah. It's funny. I did a
Speaker 1
really close relationship with Terry. Because Terry Venables was your coach at the time with England. I didn't play for him under England, but I obviously played for him at both Barcelona and Tottenham. And when you're a footballer, you don't really have a kind of personal relationship with a manager or a coach. It's very unusual that you would ever kind of socialise outside of football. But I had that with Terry Venables when I was at Barcelona. And he was only there for a season a bit when I was there. But we used to go. We used to go and have lunch with Mark Hughes as well. We were the kind of foreign players that came in. And all we ever did was talk tactics and football and that sort of stuff. But it was the one time in my career that I can never remember having that kind of relationship where, let's go out for lunch today and have
Speaker 3
a... Which is really unusual, isn't it, with a manager? Terry was brilliant though, wasn't he? I think as a coach. I think not very often that I've gone through my career that. I mean, I've had brilliant relationships with some of my managers. Kenny Daglish was incredible. Did it so much for me under family. But he wasn't really a coach. Whereas Terry Venables was a great man-manager and a great coach. I think he had... And he was brilliant. He had a great relationship with all of his players. Which is why we felt one, we let him down in Hong Kong or China or whatever it was. Then we had to then make up for that because we did admire him and respect him.
Speaker 1
You talk for those that don't know Alan. You're talking about the dentist chair now, right? When it suddenly came from page news, boys were out drinking before a tournament. We let him down and we let everyone down. But he
Speaker 3
sort of stuck up for us. He put his neck on the line for us Terry, backed everyone. So then we all then had to repay him with some great performances. And we did that. And it's ironic that we are talking about relationships with England managers and managers. Has anyone seen the David Beckham thing where he really heavily criticises Glen Hoddle for his response after he got sent off, didn't he? I mean, I loved Glen Hoddle also. He gave me the England captaincy. I thought he was a fantastic coach as well. But I understand why David's critical of him. Didn't sort of agree with him and what he said after he got sent off in 1998. But I loved Glen Hoddle. I thought he was
Speaker 2
brilliant. He only amount to dry though, didn't he? I don't know if you've seen all the documentary. I mentioned it briefly on one of the other podcasts that we did. Because he criticised him, you mean? So basically after that game, and we're talking about one, he's put his leg up and Simone's done the theatrical four. And his watch off is being interviewed after the game and he basically says, like, we get to ask the question, and just blames basically Beckham for them going out of the tournament. And after watching that tournament, he went to penalties, didn't he? Yep. So everyone's blaming Beckham for that. But the other chance to go through with penalties, and I just thought now, if a manager came out and did that against the player and pretty much blaming him for them losing, it just wouldn't happen nowadays, I don't think.
Speaker 3
I mean, I get the criticism because I know he was a lot younger and certainly not as mature as perhaps it could have been, and that's understandable. But he did kick out and he did get sent off. And I mean, no, it wasn't his fault that we didn't go through or it wasn't his fault that we, that in-sore or batty missed the penalty. He's not at all. But yeah, we would have had a much better chance with him on the pitch. It is what it is. I don't blame him at all. We all have made mistakes on the pitch that you regret. And he'll look back, I'm sure he, what he does, you can hear the regret in his voice, but it happened. We don't, I didn't blame him, but I don't know. With his criticism, it glenn, I always liked Glenn. I know we all have personal reasons, but he gave me the England captain's one of the biggest and best things that can ever happen to you in football. So I like Glenn Huddle. I mean,
Speaker 1
I've worked with Glenn a lot on television and I played with him as well. And as a footballer, he was unbelievable. And I actually think he was very gifted. You just listened to him talk about football and he sees things in a different way, particularly tactically. He's really excellent. That actually, the Beckham thing and the red card that he got, and obviously the vitriol that when he came home was quite extraordinary. Which brings me actually to the subject of Jordan Henderson being booed. Obviously, Gareth Southgate came out after the game and he said he just couldn't understand why they would do that. And I suppose it's perhaps a mixture of things. You know, obviously going to Saudi Arabia. I think people think perhaps he shouldn't be around the squad now and stuff. But I mean, he's given so much to his country. He's been brilliant in tournaments. He's been a very, very important player for Gareth Southgate.
Speaker 3
He certainly doesn't deserve to be booed. Does he not? Not in any shape or? I thought that was extremely, extremely harsh. Let me ask a question or let me say, would I be correct in saying that I guess 98 or 99% of those people that booed him through the night? If given the same chance, put in the same position to earn £700,000 a week at 30 odd years of age, would they say no to that?
Speaker 1
I suspect they probably wouldn't. But I think also it's become this frustration amongst the fans that he should be in the starting lineup. I think it's not necessarily about the fact that he's gone over there. But it's the kind of fact that Gareth Southgate has really stuck with him, I suppose.
Speaker 6
Yeah, but you can't blame him for that.
Speaker 3
No, I agree. I'm just trying to make Playdavils advocate here. The work that he's done off the field, as well as on the field. I mean, he's been a great captain for Liverpool. Fantastic leader. He's taken Liverpool to heights that they hadn't been to for a long time. So, no, I don't agree with the criticism of him at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1
again, I'm playing Davos Advocate here, but his critics would say that he did so much for the LGBTQ plus communities. And he's undone that by going to a country where those particular minorities are frowned upon.
Speaker 3
Well, he could have chosen not to do it. He could have chosen not to do any work whatsoever. He couldn't have chosen not to do any work beforehand for the NHS, for the all the captains, when he got those two together, for the LGBTQ plus community. But he did.
Speaker 1
No, I'm totally with you, Alan. I'm just putting the side of the argument. I think it's scary
Speaker 2
now. I think Henderson has been fantastic. And we all know that he's been a leader. He's performed at the highest level for a while now. But the frustration comes from, he's gone to a league where people don't know how good the league is, and he's still playing for his country. When we used to play for our country before, you might get one, maybe one or two who were not playing or coming back from injury or something like that. But basically now, the pride of going to play for your country, the level, nobody knows the level in which you have to be at to go play for your country. I think that's where the frustration comes from. So if you look at someone like Ward Prouse, the start of the, you know, the start that he's had to the season at Westam, we knew how good he was at Southampton in a struggling side. Now he's in a team which is performing a lot better, and he still can't get a sniff. So that's where the frustration comes from, from a football point of view. And that's where I'm like, okay, Southgate has still got his favourites, but he's a manager. He can do what he wants. Correct.
Speaker 1
He can do absolutely what he wants. And if that's pick and Jordan, as I've told you before, I said, when I went to Japan, I made a conscious decision to retire from international football because I think, you know, when you go for that end of career, sort of experience, pay day, call it where you like. I think personally it helps the England manager at the time if you make that decision for him. But we're
Speaker 3
all different.

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