The first conversation you need to have is what we call, like, in the business of conversation by process, that you need to just get agreement. In a lot of difficult conversations, what happens is that both parties haven't agreed on what the goals are. So if the goal is im going to try to change your mind, i don't think yat person's going to be able to lie and say they're fine with it. But if  you can actually agree to those goals an sew along each other’s points of view then things will go much more smoothly. And one thing you see too is how quickly, um, it's sufficient just for you to do that