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Before launching native, i was like, ga, you know what? I want a natural deoterant that works a not so does my sister. So i started testing every diodren i could find. And as just like, look, these products aren't cutting it. We have a tangled history with the guest tat you're going to talk about. You mentioned founders dojo, i think earlier, when we were talking, sam was on the podcast earlier. Was he foolish it? Or was this real? No, that was definitely real.