I think I got very interested in the idea of sustainable businesses. How do you build a business that exists outside of the people that work within it? And this in coffee is a particular challenge because go back to this. You do loads of brush the training as a coffee roaster and supply, you train loads of people. But when they leave, half your business doesn't walk out the door. That for me became a very interesting sort of thing to think about - how do you treat it like a thing that can learn independently?"

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