
S3 Ep16 Family Rifts with Lisa Moss
Elevator Systems - Bowen Family Systems Theory
When to avoid contact: safety and options
Katie stresses legitimate reasons for no contact in abusive situations and explores safer alternatives like touching the system's periphery.
Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today’s episode is about something that can happen at any stage of life: family rifts. Lisa Moss joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to discuss family rifts and Bowen family systems theory.
Lisa Moss is a licensed clinical social worker with 15 years in private practice. Lisa completed the post graduate training program at the Center for Family Consultation in Evanston, Illinois, and joined the faculty in 2013. Lisa has studied family dynamics, marriage, sibling relationships, and human behavior from a Bowen theory perspective for nearly two decades. Before private practice, Lisa worked in hospitals and community agencies, gaining a wide view of how people and families function in different settings. She earned her MSW from Loyola University Chicago after completing her undergraduate studies at the University of Kansas, and has been a licensed clinical social worker since 1995.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- Bowen theory’s concept of “cutoff” as well as the use of family rifts, estrangement, and distance in relationships.
- Cutoff may relieve immediate tension and it has short and long-term consequences for the individual and family.
- Estrangement can lead to difficulties in other relationships, including the transfer of emotional intensity from one relationship to another.
- Understanding family dynamics through systems thinking can help individuals to manage themselves in challenging relationships.
- Examples include: TV shows “The Bear”, “Everybody Loves Raymond” “Gilmore Girls” and what drove the story line in every 1990s sitcom, as well as clinical examples.
This episode is for professionals and non-professionals alike, especially those thinking through the cost and benefits of breaking away from challenging relationships.
Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.
Recommended Resources:
- The Murray Bowen Archives Project
- Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
- Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
- Dr. Michael E. Kerr: Bowen Theory’s Secrets
- Catherine M. Rakow: Making Sense of Human Life
- Anne McKnight (Ed): Thinking Systems: Applying Bowen Theory in Clinical Practice
- Anne McKnight, Family Matters: Cutoff in Family Relationships
- Anne McKnight: “Two Perspectives on Family Rifts: The Concepts of Estrangement and Cut-off”, Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy, 45(2)
- Kathleen Smith: When You’re Too Close to the Problem
- Kathleen Smith: Living Outside of Conflict
- Hasan Minhaj podcast with Gabor Maté
- Elevator Systems, S1 Ep5 Distance
- Elevator Systems, S2 Ep6 Emotional Cutoff
New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan!
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Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca
Key Topics:
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DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.


