After the 1999 meeting, craft went off and tried to do a thing. The companies did what's called health washing - inventing fake ways of making their food seem less addictive or less troublesome. They started adding like, blobs of protein to other ways, sugary cereal on the notion that people kind of fixated on. So I think we're in this phase now where the companies are super sensitive to the food, they're super sensitive to competition. And there's the other thing that's happening too, is that they're insiders at these companies who are switching sides.

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