Vought's 'Traumatize Bureaucrats' Remark Explained

Russell Vought, the director of the Office of Management and Budget, has become one of the most influential figures shaping Trump’s second term. He’s the main driver of efforts to weaken federal agencies and push through sweeping government layoffs. In a recent piece copublished by ProPublica and the New Yorker, reporter Andy Kroll reveals how Vought’s ideas about federal bureaucracy are being put into action. Kroll joins Apple News In Conversation host Shumita Basu to explain why some in Washington call Vought the “shadow president.”