The Cost of Abstinence

James Morris is his name. He's done this, pulled these studies together to show that in many cases abstinence only makes people's relationship with the substance worse or can make the relationship with the substances worse. And then more importantly, that also abstinence only is a barrier to people getting support, right? Because they don't want to stop. So what we kind of said a long time ago was great. We've got these challenges. We're now over 100,000 members in 138 countries who've taken our programs. You can get show notes. Well, if we can send the link for that, I'll put it in the show notes Rory as well.