Scaling: Process, Second-Line, and Repeatability

In this episode, we sit down with Carl Mattsson, VP & GM EMEA at Kong, to discuss one of the most remarkable scaling journeys in the industry. Carl joined Kong when it was at just $1M ARR in the EMEA market and has since spearheaded its growth to nearly $100M ARR. We explore the unique sales principles that shaped the organization, the "heart surrounded by science" culture, and how Carl navigated the transition from a single-product company to a dominant AI-governance platform. Carl also shares the incredible story of a founder’s personal commitment that kept him at the company during a critical turning point.

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🏹 Key Topics Covered

00:00 - intro

02:30 - Joining Kong at $1M ARR

04:34 - Pivoting from Family to Team Culture

07:42 - Hiring for Character over Industry Experience

17:22 - The Open Source to Enterprise Transition

22:31 - The Pasta Story: A Founder's Commitment

31:46 - Kong’s Role as the AI Governance Layer

50:39 - Scaling Careers in 4-Year Increments

💥 3 Biggest Lessons:

Hire Character, Teach Technology: In the early stages of a high-growth startup, it is more effective to hire for sales character and drive than for specific industry knowledge. Carl emphasizes that while API technology can be taught, the innate curiosity and grit required to traverse from developers to the C-suite cannot be coached. Heart Surrounded by Science: While many elite sales organizations focus 99% on "science" (metrics and process), Carl advocates for a culture of kindness over niceness. This means having the "heart" to challenge each other uncomfortably and care for the human, while using "science" to provide the repeatable structure needed for scale. The "Because Of" Journey: Carl encourages leaders and reps to seek out roles where their personal contribution leaves a visible mark on the company's trajectory. Success in a "because of you" environment sharpens a salesperson more than a fully-oiled machine, preparing them for the highest levels of business leadership.

💬 Notable Quotes

"Our culture should be: we’re not going to be nice every day, but we’re going to be kind".

"I can teach it (the playbook), but I can't teach you character".

"If you're in something you believe in... I don't tend to pick up the phone, even when great people like you call in". "We put the customers first, the company second, and ourselves last".

"I look at my career in four-year increments... that’s always helped me be pretty focused about where I need to go and learn".

🙌 Thanks for listening!

This episode was hosted by Simon Kouttis and Oli Kuehne, founders of Hunters & Unicorns, and post-produced by the team at videoforce.pro. If you enjoyed this episode, please drop a like/share and subscribe to our channel! 🦄 Connect with Hunters & Unicorns Website: http://huntersandunicorns.com Twitter:   / huntersun1corns   Instagram:   / huntersandunicorns   Blog: http://huntersandunicorns.com/blog #softwaresales #huntersandunicorns #playbookuniverse