And so it's been around quite a while as well. But both of these labels are indie labels, indie dance labels, indie electronic labels, however you want to call it. And if you've been following me for a while and listening to the show, this is, I'm not an expert in the dance realm or the electronic music realm. I don't even know how to talk about it, really. Uh, so this interview is me stumbling through that. If you are an expert in the dance music realm or you are a dance artist or producer, electronic artist or producer, uh, I know there's a gazillion subgenres, I'm not even going to pretend to start to name a few of them. But they name a bunch of them. You're going to enjoy this episode too because we break down record deals and how their labels work and how they sign new producers and artists. I at one point asked them how they generate revenue. We talked about downloads, believe it or not. And you'll hear why downloads are important in this realm and into their business model and to these record labels. But also how dance labels function very differently from indie labels of every other genre. And of course, function very differently from major labels of every other genre. We discuss marketing techniques and our, uh, what they look for in new producers that they're thinking of signing, how artists and producers can go about getting record deals, can go about building their careers and just the business model overall of the dance music realm. No matter what style of music you listen to or, or rather, I should say probably create or make or work in. This is a very fascinating episode. I would encourage everyone to listen to this. I learned a ton. Uh, it's one of my favorite parts about doing this show, this podcast is I get to learn. You're hearing me learn in real time and, and you know, the, the only reason I'm able to write the book is because I do interviews like this and I'm, I'm absolutely going to have new pages in the next edition of the book, which won't be coming out for a few years, but because of this conversation and every other conversation that I'm having on this, so you're kind of hearing this in real time as I learn it and you can learn it. You can find higher ground, the label on Instagram, of course, Matt decent as well. You can find them on Instagram. You can find dirty bird, uh, on their website on Instagram. You can find the labels. Uh, they, they have Spotify profiles and playlists as well. Uh, you can find all of us at the make show happen at R.E.'s take on Instagram, TikTok, threads. Yes, we are on threads now and Twitter. Uh, you can find me at R.E. Herstand on Instagram and threads. Uh, I'm still on Twitter too, but I normally just tweet about Dodger stuff. So if you're not really into the Dodgers or into baseball, there's no real reason to probably find me on Twitter. But anyway, visit R.E.'s take.com, get on the email list. That is where the most important information we send out about everything about the new music business, new podcasts, episodes, everything like that. R.E.'s take.com, get on the email list. But right now, just pause, pause the episode real quick. Hit the follow button, hit the subscribe button. However you listen to this, subscribe, follow, leave us a five star review on Spotify podcast and Apple podcast. Uh, give us a thumbs up on YouTube. However you listen to this, give us a comment over there. Uh, that really helps. I, I really love, uh, seeing the comments and the reviews and all that kind of stuff. All right. Well, let's kick it in the show. This episode is brought to you by Band Zugel from GarageBands to Grammy winners. Band Zugel powers the websites for tens of thousands of musicians around the world. I can tell you firsthand, Band Zugel is awesome. I've been using them for years. I've built many, many websites on Band Zugel. It's super simple. You don't need any coding, knowledge, graphic design knowledge. I'm actually a really terrible graphic design artist. I'd like to think I'm okay. I'm decent. I have Photoshop and, you know, I've designed my fair share of show posters over the years. I should not have. I'm not a good graphic design artist. I know my strengths and weaknesses. Anyway, Band Zugel, you don't need any of that.