In resolving hundreds of kidnap-for-ransom cases involving gang leaders, pirates, and extortionists, Scott Walker, a former Scotland Yard detective, has learned a thing or two about how to negotiate and communicate in a crisis. He shares how to apply those lessons to the difficult conversations we all have in our everyday lives in his book Order Out of Chaos: Win Every Negotiation, Thrive in Adversity, and Become a World-Class Communicator, and we talk about his tips on today's show.

Scott and I discuss what a "red center" means in a kidnap-for-ransom scenario and how to create one in your personal life, the "immediate action drill" that can help you stay in that red center, the importance of separating the decision-maker from the communicator in a negotiation and having a "battle rhythm," why you don't give hostage takers the money they ask for right away and how to structure a negotiation instead, and more.

Resources Related to the Podcast

• AoM Article: The 7 Habits — Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood
• AoM Podcast #648: Lessons in Building Rapport from Experts in Terrorist Interrogation
• AoM Podcast #234: Haggling and Deal Making Advice From a FBI Hostage Negotiator
• Box breathing
• Physiological sigh

Connect With Scott Walker

• Scott's website