Sean Illing talks with writer Michael Lewis about why it is that Americans are so good at producing knowledge, but so bad at identifying and utilizing that knowledge — the central issue of the new season of his podcast "Against the Rules." They discuss who counts as an expert, some fundamental impediments to disseminating knowledge, and whether or not there is a possible future where Americans regain their trust in experts, institutions, and each other.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Michael Lewis, author

References: 

• Against the Rules with Michael Lewis podcast (Pushkin)
• The Premonition: A Pandemic Story by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2021 - paperback; 2022)
• The Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2018)
• The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millennium by Martin Gurri (Stripe; 2014)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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