The speakers conclude their conversation by discussing power and freedom and how they haven't quite figured out how to achieve these concepts yet. The guest provides information about where listeners can find more about his work, including his website and book, and welcomes suggestions and engagement from readers. They also clarify the misconception of power with and with, highlighting successful organizations that embrace both competition and cooperation.
You know pyramid thinking; it’s the pervasive mindset that compels us to ask, “Who’s up? Who’s down? Who’s in? Who’s out? Who wins? Who loses?” But thinking about power and its flow between people in those terms means missing out on other skills. Pyramid thinking says, “If you’re not spinning around the winning-or-losing hamster wheel, then you’re doing nothing”—when in reality, blowing up that binary lets us focus on learning, playing, and building. What’s the shape of that model?
Author and former U.S. ambassador Matthew Barzun sees it as a constellation, where everyone is both distinctly themselves and part of something greater. If pyramids symbolize top-down-ness and control, then constellations symbolize interdependence and co-creation.
In this episode of Brave New Work, Aaron Dignan and Rodney Evans talk to Matthew about his new book, The Power of Giving Away Power, a key leadership thinker lost in time, and reimagining Teddy Roosevelt’s “arena.”
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