I think that I really don't think that's coincidence where everyone has this. I mean, if you were to have a stereotypical picture of what a surfer looks like and very chilled out, very relaxed. And yeah, they are. But I don't think that's a coincidence with the fact that you're just in nature all the time. There's so many studies showing now on people that have, I mean, the pandemic has just shown it as well. Like the people who don't have that connection with nature, the people that have been locked up in buildings and athletes that have been competing have been training within their own homes throughout the pandemic. I was really fortunate. I was in Australia throughout that whole period. So I was able to be outside. So I didn't get to experience that whole real lockdown fierceness of the pandemic. But I think there is so much that speaks to athletes in being able to do something outside or in nature. And if that can be just one workout, if that can be all of your workouts, I think it really does have an impact on your mental wellbeing. And, and again, your physical wellbeing, because you're getting your training done whilst you're out there.

I totally agree. And I think I probably like you experienced it the most during the pandemic. So it was interesting for me. Kind of my best and worst year was in 2016 when I qualified for the World Tour. I was 19. I was the first surfer from the Caribbean to ever qualify. It was the top 17 women in the world. And I felt very young, very green and like I was competing against world champions who are my role models. And for me, I was like, wow, this is incredible. I like, you know, I look up to you in your idol, but now I've got to beat you. And it was hard tough for me mentally. And I lost a lot that year because I couldn't find myself. I couldn't find, you know, my rhythm and purpose in the jersey. And so, yeah, for surfing for me, I was like, oh, God, I'm like, it wasn't bringing me as much joy, especially competing. And my partner, he, so with surfing, we have lots of different kinds of surfboards for the one that we use in competition. It's called a high performance surfboard. Most of the time it's got three things. It's a thruster and you want it because it goes really fast. It's sharp and explosive. But there's a lot of different kinds of surfboards. You can have two fins, it's called a twin fin. You have a single fin, which is more vintage is like an older type of surfboard, but you draw different lines on the way with them. And I remember Thomas and partner telling me, you know, I was like kind of frustrated about surfing. I didn't want to go surfing. I didn't want to have like competition mindset. But I needed an escape. And for me, the oceans of the escape that I couldn't kind of detach my competition mindset from just joy and enjoyment. And he was like, just jump on a different type of surfboard so that you're not thinking about doing competition high performance turns. You're just in the ocean enjoying yourself and not thinking, just going along with the wave. And that helped me a lot because I went from not wanting to surf for two weeks or just not wanting to see the water because I needed to detach from contest thoughts. To being able to switch that mindset off, jump in the ocean, you know, go surfing with friends, have a chat, catch some waves and just enjoy myself. And I've taken that into, you know, the rest of my career and years following when I needed to, you know, get away from contest just go on a sponge surf trip or go, you know, adventure down the coast. Don't take any of the high performance surfboards just take, you know, some fun boards as we call them. And that really helped and during the pandemic when I was also in Australia for almost all of 2020. And so we were able to go surfing. And I remember being in the house, I was studying at the time and you can't really, you know, you can go to the shops and you can go outside to exercise. I remember just being so down in the dumps, like for the day, if I was behind my computer the whole day and then I was like, all right, Tom. Let's go for a surf and we could just, you know, put our wetsuits on and go surfing and there'd be a couple others that were also escaping from work and, you know, work from home life. And just being in nature, you know, seeing the sun, being in the ocean, having a chat with a friend. I think that is the main thing that got me through the pandemic mentally. And I am so I've got such a more appreciation for nature for my sport. And yeah, just moving my body outside. I could really tell the difference of days that I didn't go compared to the days I go, even, you know, having that human connection outside and being in nature.

That's so interesting. One of the things I was going to ask you, which I probably don't need to now, is how you kind of escape something that isn't escape for people. And that doing it in a different ways are really nice and almost tangible thing for athletes, I think, because so many athletes struggle with escaping their sports because the sports are an escape themselves. And that can be a real challenge because you're trying to you're trying to down regulate yourself. You're trying to relax. You're trying to give yourself some space. But the only thing you want to be doing is the thing that you're doing that's giving you perhaps that stress, the anxieties, the frustrations at the time, if it's not going well, or perhaps maybe you're over training, you're burnt out. So doing it a different way, try it out in a different way, try doing your sport. Can you train in a different way? Can you perhaps instead of going for a if your training is running and you've got to do a 10k run, perhaps go do a swim, get your running, get your training in in a different format so that you can escape something, but you're still kind of holding on to the thing that you want to be doing? I think that's I'm actually in that place now where I'm trying to to to change a lot of my training regularly so that it keeps me interested in what I'm doing and and maybe surfing or be something I do. There was something I actually came across if you were talking about sort of the the emotions you feel on the wave and I I had done so I'm doing a performance psychology masters in performance psychology and I am something I read about the other day was it was using big waves of the surfers. So people like lead Hamilton and the the film riding giants was a part of that course that we were looking at and it was about people who have something who are a lexithymic and these are people who have a hard time describing their emotions. They can't really describe what their emotions are and these they found a lot of these surfers and sensation seekers were people like that because the one thing that they could do was when they were in the waves which were huge waves and these have got massive consequences. The one thing they could identify with was fear. So fear was a constant throughout it and it was always something that was was there. I found that really really interesting about that when they were on the waves they could regulate their emotions but when they come off it's really really challenging for them to to be able to do that. It's probably a little bit different in the waves that you're you're riding but do you do you feel that sense of emotional stability when you're you're on the waves? Where did your mind go when you're actually out there riding the waves and you're doing what you're doing so well?

Oh, that's really interesting. I think that's a good question probably hard to answer but different bits. So I think for me let's say if I'm just getting ready for you. I'm trying to improve my surfing when I'm out there. I've got to have intentions so there's a couple of things that I'll be working on technique wise or even with my wave selection what waves I want to go for. When I do kind of do that maneuver that I've been practicing for ages and do it properly and I can feel that you know the perfect sensation of coming off the bottom doing the turn and landing it coming out in front of the wave. That gratification that you know those those high emotions of joy and accomplishment. I think that's probably what I keep going after is that sense of winning. You you you accomplished that you got that done and that was such a good feeling. So yeah that that definitely one of it is just just feeling like you've accomplished something and you want to be some one of the best surfers in the world. You want to do something that that pushes the envelope. If you with surfing like I said earlier it's it's about risk. So getting that adrenaline rush of going for a really difficult tricky maneuver and landing it and I'm surprising yourself almost when you go for that that but those emotions are brilliant and then but then sometimes outside of a training for competition when you're kind of got a lot going on in your mind or you can't really sort through your thoughts just paddling out and not having any agenda but letting your thoughts go where they where they may and kind of being in the rhythm of mother nature is also fantastic because I feel like I get my best ideas and kind of sort through life's problems out in the water as well within escape. So that answers your

question at all. Yeah no it's it's it's more just speaking to that whole flow state that you can get into and I think there's probably no real better situation that would be doing that than out on the water like that connectedness to nature you're literally riding a wave and that's an analogy for so it's used in an analogy it's so many different things like it's not a coincidence so it's just such an interesting interesting place place to be. I kind of want to talk about you we mentioned a little bit about mindset and you've you've touched on it a little bit here and there so preparing for a a competition will get into probably on the waves and what it means having your mind right when you're on the waves but is there things that you do in preparation for competition was there something that you do regularly now and say the competition you've just had coming up that gets you into the right right mindset that you've perhaps learned over time is it something that's even changed over time.

Yeah mindset definitely has changed over time and there's a lot of of yeah mindset preparation going into an event because the high level that I'm competing at right now all of the girls are really really good and it's kind of someone who's on on the day I mean we've all got the talent but you can just tell when someone's so mentally strong and focused and they're choosing the right waves they're completing their maneuvers they're landing everything not falling off and just looking strong on their boards in the flow state as you say and that takes a lot of mental preparation for me something that I have done for a little while now is journal before events so with Mother Nature you've kind of got to understand the surf the wave and break that you're at what kind of bottom it is if it is affected at the high tide or the low tide what waves are great and so I journal that kind of get a game plan for my heat okay which which ways do I take how long are the waves taking to come in what waves would like to take so that I am confident in my decision making when I get to the heat but then I've got to tell myself okay you've put in the work now you know what waves to look for trust yourself believe in yourself back yourself that seems to be honestly the hardest thing to do in surfing and it was a huge part of my win at Supo is I knew the waves better than anybody else and the only way that I was going to lose that event is if I trip myself up as if I got nervous and I made bad decisions and I didn't commit to my decisions and so throughout the whole event the biggest part of my mindset was believe in yourself back yourself like if you're looking at a wave of a good one commit to it believe that you're going to make that right choice and you know trust the decision that you're going to make and that was really huge I had a conversation with one of my great friends just this morning Isabel and Nichols from Australia who is now competing at Bell's beach in Australia and she's surfing incredibly but she just lost her heat around the 16 heat which is really important because there's a mid season caught coming and I said oh you know I'm really disappointed for you because you've been surfing so well but you know head up the next contest is coming around the corner and she's like yep I'm really disappointed because I know my surfing is there but the decision making is out there and basically you know and basically sometimes what that means is there's so much pressure coming into the contest because if you lose it's it's got a lot of consequence you're going to fall off of that tour so sometimes you are so afraid to take the wave you've got too much fear like oh am I going to make the wrong choice that you don't commit to your decisions so yeah that I think that's the biggest thing about surfing is is trusting yourself because mother nature you don't know what waves to go for you're kind of you're you're at the mercy of mother nature but if you can believe that you'll make the right choice and and yeah just believe in your surfing that it's a make or break

so is that that's something that you've had someone tell you or you've just learned over time you've taken that from other other surfers and and yeah how do you really that's a big thing to overcome because like I said there's must be always this this inner voice that's saying are the next one or don't do it now and and people are going to be able to contextualize this probably in their own lives in their own sports like there's decisions I feel I should take now and I don't want to live in regret if I don't take that decision now but I don't feel like I can take that step now what is it that's allowing you to take that step do you have a certain phrase that you're telling yourself or mantra or something that really gets you to take that step. Yeah I think everybody

can relate because we are in the business of always doubting ourselves and thinking that people are better than we are in surfing so much because maybe someone will put a surfing video up on social media right before the contest where they're surfing incredible you're like oh my gosh I've got to go up against this girl she you know she serves better than me she's more prepared that she you know she looks more prepared than me and you just doubt yourself and you don't believe in your surfing and I think when there's a lot on the line decision making in life you are scared to make a decision in case it's the wrong one in case you regret it later and you know even if you're picking a career if you're picking a school course a trip to go on you're just like oh if you're kind of stuck in that limbo where you can't make that decision I feel like you're in a way that you're not going to be a good person and I feel like you're in a place of fear how much is understandable so I remember and it's something I've struggled with my whole career I mean I've got some really great results in my life and I've had some really tough losses and I think with the difference of the way I feel in a contest where I lose and the way I feel in a contest that I win is being confident and sure my decisions feel confident all the time I don't sometimes I don't know what it takes to really get into that flow state sometimes you just get into the flow state after having a good session before the event but the biggest thing that I've been told recently I cannot remember where I saw it but I think it might have been on a podcast and someone said successful people make quick decisions and I love that because in life I'm very indecisive oh what do I want to eat what do I want to wear today where do I want to surf when do I want to surf and I'm like no Chelsea successful people make quick decisions and I've been telling myself that recently I'm like okay if I make a decision I'm just going to commit to it and I'm going to go down that path and when I need to make a love decision I'm going to commit to it and I think whatever decision you make or in life or whatever choice you make in life if you can 100% commit to it it's going to be the right one you just you know you can't half-ass it and in surfing when you half-ass something you're going to fall you're going to be too confused and the judges are going to be able to see that your competitors are going to be able to see that you don't have the presence and the strength with your decisions so I'm getting a little lost right now but yeah that's a really that's a really tangible thing to do

like I think you it's more the fact that when people don't want to step into and take that decision they just don't know where it's going to lead there's this fear of not going into the unknown but I was listening to Jordan Pete's and say something brilliantly recently which was about taking going down a road and that road then making a turn and that next road then makes another turn and that will take another turn and it's going to be a little bit more and the original path that you may have started out on and the road you started out on is not necessarily where that road was going to end because you've taken all these different turns and it might be a failure met someone or had an experience and it changes you and you end up in a different place and it's usually a better place at the end of the day and I've done this in previous podcasts we've spoken about people living recognizing that failures in the past have actually served them better in the future if you really look back on it but ultimately you'd never get down that path you'd never get down those roads if you hadn't even gone down the road in the first place you made that decision to take the first part and and if you and again I quote another book if you want to be perfect do nothing like do you know what I mean there's there's there's a part of a of like narcissistic traits where you can be perfect in the world where you actually don't do anything if you want to start a new exercise program by not starting it you never really fail at it so in that sense you're perfect but if you at least try to start and try then you can at least learn reiterate and then you can get a little bit of a thing of sport and just again life in general is that you can just try things move on see if it worked and and if you don't go into it I'm sure with the learning mindset like what did I learn from today what did I learn out on the waves what did I learn from that experience of making that decision okay well I can back that decision making or actually I need to wait a little bit longer I was bit too hasty or things like that there's do you use this as a review process you use your journaling as a review process as well as a review process as well as a review process as well as a review process.

Yes absolutely and I think a good thing that serving teaches me in life as well is that you've got to be able to adapt like you say you may be going down one road and it's not where you're expected to go but just go with it with with all your heart kind of thing and yeah with mother nature you're at the mercy. You don't know what waves are going to come you can't have a perfect game plan but you've got to be able to adapt and trust trust your decision making with serving I do I learned this from a mental coach. She said you know what are you going to kind of prepare for before the event or before the heat and what are you going to say to yourself after the heat and she said always lead with the positives tell me you know write down in your journal what went well in the heat. Tell me or write down to yourself what would you change you know what didn't exactly go according to plan or what decisions did you not think you know we're good and thirdly what will you improve your life. What will you do better next time how will you you know come back stronger next time even if you win win lose or draw what what can you improve upon and that's been huge for me. Just just yeah evaluating after every heat and see what you can improve upon and again back to your point. I had a different podcast that I did the other day and we talked about fear because in surfing if you. Don't want to lose or you've got a fair losing or fair falling you'll do what we call safety surfing and the judges hate that. You know you're doing turns that you know you're going to land but there's no risk involved and you know degree of difficulties in the criteria and the judges don't like that but for some reason we still I still do it and I'm competitors still do it we just don't want to fall. So we do this you know this turn that's safe and you don't get rewarded and then you regret it. And I think most of my regrets have come from inactivity you know rather than activity and that's another thing that I've been telling myself recently is fail you fail often. I was listening to a masterclass with Sarah Blakely recently he's the inventor of spikes and apparently growing up her father every day he's asked her inner siblings what is it. And then she said what did you fail at today. And it was encouraged you know it was normalized in that household and I love that because I'm definitely someone that's a bit safe and shy sometimes but my biggest regrets have come with from inactivity so with learning through serving and in life just to take the life I fail. Oh well you know I'm no worse off than if I never did it in the first place.

I love that I think that I've listened to Sarah Blakely talk she's incredible the story of Spanx is an amazing one as well and she's an incredible founder and yeah just an awesome I love that what did you fail at today it's one of the things that I love working with athletes on and just really trying to change that whole mentality around don't be afraid of failing and I think it's becoming harder now I think it's really been exacerbated like you mentioned with the social media seeing someone ride a perfect wave it's like it's only going to strengthen that feeling to not want to fail because you're seeing someone else do so well but you're just not seeing everything that's behind it and yeah you kind of want to identify I want to I always want to feel like I'm identifying with being imperfect like I yes I've got things of me that I do well but there are things that I'm terrible at and there's things that I want to fail at and get wrong because that's when I know I can start to change something I can have the awareness to change it and I think that's a that's such a one that I'm keeping that quote that was that's that's it that's a good one. What do you want to be known as a as a surfurist and athlete and in your time.

I definitely want to be a role model I think now that veteran at 26 quote unquote coming from Barbados being the first one to you know get on the world tour. A lot of the time when I was younger and people would say you know you're from Barbados you're not going to be anywhere close to people from Australia and the USA with these incredible coaches and high performance centers you know kind of a pipe dream and luckily I had a really supportive family and I was very hard headed as a kid and I was like whatever you know I'm just going to go for it and I did and and you know I did something that seemed impossible to some people and I hope to kind of be that inspiration for our younger generation especially in Barbados coming from a small island we've got incredible athletes but maybe they don't have the belief in themselves and the more that they see people that are just like them doing huge things it's going to inspire them to dream bigger and and yeah that's definitely what I want to you know be known for is just as an inspiration as someone that not define the odds but just kind of didn't care what people thought and went for and and you know you see what what can happen.