New episodes come out every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday for free, with 1-week early access for Wondery+ subscribers.

---

The human animal doesn't love paradox. We love a clear, simple story. Us versus them. Good versus evil. But life is rarely like that. This is especially true when it comes to wrestling with history. Our guest today calls it the patriot's dilemma. How do you love your country while also acknowledging the painful and horrifying stuff that has happened in the past?

Dolly Chugh is a professor at the New York University Stern School of Business where she teaches MBA courses in leadership and management. This is her second time on the show. The last time she came on, she spoke about the concept of being "good-ish." One of the reasons we get defensive when people criticize us is that we feel like it's a threat to our precious notion of being a good person. But if you have a good-ish mindset, then there's always room to grow. Her new book, A More Just Future, encourages us to do that for America.

Content Warning: This episode includes brief mentions of slavery and violence.

In this episode, we talked about:

Why Dolly was scared to write this book
What the home team bias is and how it shows up when we think about our past
What belief grief is
The "long time ago illusion"
And, what Dolly calls being a gritty patriot

Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/dolly-chugh-568

Why the Pentagon's new press rules have been rejected by news outlets

The Monocle Daily

Intro

The AI-powered Podcast Player