In this episode I host a dialogue between Henry Shukman, British poet, Zen teacher, and author of ‘One Blade of Grass; a Zen memoir’; and John Brehm, American poet and author of ‘The Dharma of Poetry’. Henry and John share the story of their formations as poets, compare the similarities as well as the marked differences in their backgrounds, and reveal the powerful forces that inspire the creative process. Henry and John discuss the purpose and process of writing poetry, reflect on poetry as a means of contact with the sacred, and contrast the richness of poetry with attentional practices such as mindfulness and Zen. Henry and John also perform and discuss several of their poems, including “Walk the Talk”, “Swifts”, “Yahrzeit”, and “Finis Ter”. … Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep274-poetry-the-sacred-henry-shukman-john-brehm Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’. … Topics include: 00:00 - Intro 00:56 - Henry’s early interest in poetry 03:45 - Poetry and spiritual practice 06:04 - What is it to be alive? 06:30 - Searching for the charge 06:51 - First profound experience of writing poetry 08:17 - Poetry that awakes 09:25 - John’s unliterary family background 12:00 - John’s psychedelic experiences in the 1970s 13:23 - Poetry as a way to evoke luminosity 14:37 - Contact with the sacred 15:11 - Henry reflects on John’s early life 15:57 - Henry’s unusual parents 17:23 - Inner freedom and childhood trauma 18:01 - Imagist and Tang dynasty poets 20:08 - The Beat poet and a different way of living 20:54 - Intimacy and rediscovering landscape 22:26 - Seeing beauty in the ordinary and discarded 24:41 - It’s about quality of attention 26:01 - Attracted to the neglected 29:25 - The curse of being a public poet 30:09 - No allies and no encouragement 32:01 - John’s first poetry teacher 33:08 - The audience 34:40 - Poetry only works without purpose 35:32 - Recognising the false note 36:54 - Henry’s process of composition and revision 38:24 - Great poets of the past as audience 39:43 - A R Ammons an writing for an audience 40:20 - Henry’s dream for his poetry 41:52 - The chore of mindfulness 43:09 - Remembering your True Self 43:31 - The sacred pause 44:28 - Temporary enlightenment 45:31 - Poetry is richer than mindfulness 47:28 - Beauty beyond mere mindfulness 49:28- Focusing on what you love 49:59 - Using language to go beyond language 50:54 - Autopoiesis and memetic fulfilment 53:25 - Poet as conduit 55:32 - Radical awakening 57:00 - Banishing the beautiful 58:13 - Seamus Heaney on poetry as redress 59:24 - Collective awakening of consciousness 01:00:20 - Reciprocity and post-medieval alienation 01:01:20 - Hospicing modernity 01:02:30 - Why publish poems? 01:04:27 - John reads “Walk the Talk” 01:06:03 - Reflecting on success as poets 01:09:08 - John reads “Swifts” 01:12:48 - Henry reads “Yahrzeit” 01:18:22 - Henry reads “Finis Ter” 01:19:26 - Appreciation and gratitude 
… Previous episodes with Henry Shukman: - https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=shukman 
 Previous episode with John Brehm: - https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep230-the-dharma-of-poetry-john-brehm … Find out more about Henry Shukman: - https://henryshukman.com/ - http://thewayapp.com/ Find out more about John Brehm: - https://www.johnbrehmpoet.com/ … For more interviews, videos, and more visit: - https://www.guruviking.com Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James