More of my conversation with Jack coming up after whatever it is that you're about to hear. I hope you enjoyed that product, service, album, or food stuff that I probably won't be able to taste in a couple of hours. Here's more of my conversation with Jack White. All Well, I've been hoping not from this, but I'm going to do it. Can I get dorky about the record for a second? Sure. So I've been getting ready for this interview and I've been... I see you constantly get asked this question about, you know, Jack White, what's the future of rock and roll? You know, what's... whatever happened? What ever happened to good old rock and roll with Jack White, you know? And I'm, I have a lot of thoughts on what people mean by that question, but I've noticed you answered it in a similar way a couple of times. Where you talk about the spirit of making something oppositional, something groundbreaking, something challenging, and still being able to reach a lot of people. And the example I've seen you give a couple of times is Kendrick Lamar's to Pimp a Butterfly record, where he was able to bring in jazz, funk, and someone like Thundercat who is way more influenced by Frank Zappa than we might think. A lot of Zappa -ish, needless to say, very weird music. And when I was listening to this record, I don't have a question, but when I was listening to this record, I was reminded that you love Captain Beef Heart. I was reminded that you like challenging music, historically challenging music, 20th century music, and that this genre of music or this music that you're making can be rewarded by that same exploration while still reaching a really big audience. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. If you just say, yeah, I don't know have anything to say. I'm hearing

you. I'm really glad to hear all of that. And it's, it's great to see what Kendrick Lamar and Thundercat are doing. And that that they are digging deep into musical ideas, musical history, and pushing things forward. Because it's not a... it should never be about nostalgia, you know? If you're interested in a tone of a Fender Rhodes or, you know, this kind of jazz drum kit or whatever, if you want to just recreate some moment from 1957 or something, then that's not a good place to be. That's just dead. If want to absorb some of that and see if you can twist it and synthesize with something new and go, and then you're going to get to a new place, which should probably always be the goal. You can also get to new places that other people don't find interesting. You can also get to new places that aren't going to be a top 10 hit or anything like that, or aren't going to be able to be played on the radio. Sometimes you get to new places that just aren't very good. Or people won't think they're good for 30 years. Who knows? Nobody likes Captain B. Fart when he was making Trial and Master, and everyone hated that record. It took a long time for people to absorb that thing, and that's just a brilliant piece of work. And that was recorded in four hours. They recorded that album in one afternoon. And people are still deciphering it. So you never know what's gonna happen, but what you wanna see is you want to see those artists pushing, you know? Pushing, and you can see Kendrick pushing in different directions, and that's really great. What I think it would be great, too, is to see for this generation the next crop of you know teenagers or people who love music the youth loving music is to really get interested in what is making that sound I'm listening to right now. I love this Kendrick Lamar song. What is that instrument? I'm hearing in the right channel. I think that's something that's maybe have gotten lost because of the loss of liner notes.

It's

just a theory. I don't know. But I think coming up when we, when I was younger, you know, if my brothers, we were looking at line, oh, this is the guy who played bass on this track. He also played bass on that track. Oh, this is the same keyboard player from that other band. Okay. They look at the producer on this record. You knew what was making the sound. If you you know, Glenn Miller or Benny Goodman in the 40s, you knew it was that's a clarinet. That's a saxophone. That's a Jean Crouppen drums. We're missing that a little bit. I just think it'd be something to help people get more involved in what they're loving. I love this track. Why do you love it? I don't know. Well, what's making the sound? I don't know. Okay, you know when you saw a movie with you know before CGI you'd say okay. Well that was a they ran a train off Cliff and it looked incredible. Yeah, how's that about a real a real train walk look like that was incredible or they did an incredible job using A model to make it look like a real train went off a cliff now It's just oh, it's a computer did it and if end of. You can't dig much deeper into that. If it was a model trained to make it look like a train crash, you could dig deeper. Oh, how did they film that? What lens did they use and what was the motivation behind not using a real...on and on the conversation can keep going. You don't want the conversation to end. You don't want to just say, oh, it's a drum machine. You want to be, no, that's the drummer. And the reason, you know, he's using a traditional grip and that's right symbol has cystles in it. And when he went to the bridge, you want those conversations to dig deeper. If you love music, if you tangent, if you just, it's background noise to you, whatever, who cares.