I was also surprised by the willingness of european countries to actually give a robust response in terms of economic sanction. So i think it would have been easy to assume, for informed observers as well, that a response from europe be a lot less strong and lot less serious then its turned out to be. I don't want to speculate about a border deal, because i'd feel that's for the ucranians to accept, and not for me to tell them what to do. But maybe there would be some boarder deal, you know, or some some deal about crimea or something. Maybethere would be some deal about lifting sanctions. Maybe the west lift sanctions if
Anne Applebaum is a staff writer for The Atlantic and a Senior Fellow of the Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University. In her books - most notably Red Famine: Stalin’s War on Ukraine and Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe she has chronicled the terrible human costs of past attempts by Russia to dominate countries in Central and Eastern Europe.
In this week’s conversation, Anne Applebaum and Yascha Mounk discuss the developing ideology of "Putinism," what it would look like for Ukraine to win the war, and how democracies can defend their values in a world of resurgent authoritarianism.
This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.
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