English to English translator. How did you come to this work? I mean, you hinted at having a background in marketing and branding. Is that what your formation was in? Some

of it. Yeah, I mean, I think that the first, my first great love was actually in change. And how do you make things different than they are now? And how do you do that in a way that you don't have to redo it? I allude to it in the book, but my first interaction with that was when I was 17 and I had my first panic attack that landed me in a hospital. And if you're familiar with panic or you know anyone who's had a disorder, then you know that once you've had a panic attack, you really don't want another one. And it took me 17 years to figure out how not to have another one. But I did. And I got to that point. And it's now been, actually, it just happens to be 17 years since I've had one. So I started very early just figuring out, like, well, how do you change things? How do you get people to do something different? But I held that separate in my mind from the things that I was doing in school and then in work. I mean, in school I started in marketing because that seemed like a creative outlet in business because I, frankly, I wanted to be employed. And, you know, the work there was essentially about getting people to do something different, to change minds. And in the work that I did after, the majority of my early part of my career, the first 15 years of my career was in nonprofits. So these are places with resource constraints, sometimes fairly severe resource constraints. And so all of a sudden, I had this question, okay, well, then it's now it's really important that we don't have that whatever we do first works. And that we don't have to undo it. And so I just again started to pay attention to that. And then I think one of the things that's perhaps unexpected about where some of the best lessons came from was from a different big change that I was able to make, which was, you know, as part of a mode of adapting and trying to, you know, settle my anxiety panic, I was overweight and all of that. And so I, you know, the first big change I was able to make was to lose 50 pounds, which I've now kept off for 25 years. And I decided to pay that forward and help other people do the same program that I had done, which happens to have been Weight Watchers, or what was called Weight Watchers at the time. And, you know, the first thing I did was like, I know all of this stuff, I know how to do this. I know I'm in marketing. I'm in communications. I'm just going to use that on these people. And that, let me tell you, did not work. So I learned pretty quickly. And I started doing a lot of research on my own, well, what, you know, where, where does motivation come from? Like what, what is all this about? How do people make decisions? How do, what drives them? And then because my, my role, I was moonlighting as, as a weight watchers leader, and I did that for 13 years. I had a lot of opportunities for trial and error and discovering, well, what does work when you're talking one on one to someone, when you're talking one to a small group, 30, 50, 100 people at a time? What works to make sometimes fairly sophisticated concepts of cognitive science make sense to them? How do we change their behaviors? Again, not just once, but permanently. And so I started to learn quite a bit. And then when I, what I did was I started to say, well, if it works one-on why wouldn't it work in my professional life? Why wouldn't that be? Because where it really came down to is fundamentally, I don't believe that we can create change at any kind of large scale level, market, organization, whatever, if it doesn't happen at the individual level first.