This episode is sponsored by marketing against the grain, a really cool podcast hosted by Kip Bodner and Kieran Flanagan. If you want to know what's happening now in the world of marketing, how you can lead the way, then this podcast is for you. A few recent episodes are why creators are disrupting marketing, framework thinking for success, licensing board apes in a crazy franchise story, half-baked marketing ideas and a ton more.

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