Certainty Beyond Logic and Artistic Creation

How do you find peace daily?

What keeps you going in hard times?

Today, Jay sits down with Madonna for a rare and intimate conversation that goes beyond her iconic career into the spiritual foundation that has carried her through life’s greatest challenges. For nearly 30 years, Madonna has walked a spiritual path that has shaped her resilience, fueled her creativity, and defined her sense of purpose. Madonna opens up about what first drew her to seek deeper meaning, the practices that became her lifeline, and why she believes spirituality has been the true key to her strength, longevity, and fulfillment.

Together, Jay and Madonna dive into themes of transformation, the search for meaning in suffering, the freedom that comes with radical acceptance, and the power of forgiveness to heal our deepest wounds. Madonna shares the moments that tested her most, from loss and betrayal to near-death experiences, and how each challenge became an opening for growth when she chose to see it through the lens of purpose rather than punishment.

In the second half of the conversation, Jay and Madonna are joined by her longtime Kabbalah teacher, Eitan, for a powerful exploration of spiritual wisdom in action. They discuss why our struggles and inner battles are essential for growth, and how to reframe challenges as opportunities to reveal greater light. Eitan offers practical tools, from pausing and embracing discomfort to practicing “certainty beyond logic,”  to help us find strength in life’s most difficult moments.

In this interview, you'll learn:

How to Build a Spiritual Practice

How to Find Meaning in Suffering

How to Escape the Victim Mentality

How to Practice Radical Acceptance

How to Forgive and Let Go

How to Manifest with Consciousness

How to Teach Kids Spiritual Awareness

How to Stop Comparing Yourself to Others

How to Discover Your Soul’s Purpose

Every one of us will face moments of doubt, loss, or uncertainty, but those moments are not the end of our story, they are invitations to grow into something greater. The challenges we experience are not punishments but lessons, guiding us back to our true selves. 

With Love and Gratitude,

Jay Shetty

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Explore the deep spiritual study of Kabbalah with Madonna’s new course, ‘The Mystical Studies of the Zohar’ together with her teacher Eitan Yardeni at www.kabbalah.com

What We Discuss:

00:00 Intro

00:44 Beginning a Spiritual Journey

02:41 Choosing Your Spiritual Path

08:26 Breath, Yoga, and Inner Peace

17:40 Do You Need Spirituality to Be Successful?

20:29 Channeling Art Through Spirit

24:56 Transcending Trauma and Pain

27:56 Life Beyond Money and Material Success

30:30 Motherhood as a Spiritual Calling

33:07 The Gift of Being Different

35:54 Teaching Kids Spiritual Awareness

40:37 Showing Up Through the Struggle

42:37 Facing the Enemy Within

48:54 Escaping the Victim Mentality

50:23 How We Abandon Ourselves

54:36 Breaking Free From Self-Pity

56:16 Manifestation with Consciousness

01:01:24 Finding Strength in Community

01:05:53 The Weight of Words and Actions

01:08:57 Letting Go of Hate and Grudges

01:19:44 The Wisdom of Kabbalah

01:21:40 How Madonna Discovered Kabbalah

01:27:25 Unlocking the Secrets of Life Through Spirituality 

01:30:55 The Inner Battle With Toxic Thoughts

01:38:02 A Mother’s Deepest Fear

01:40:09 Learning to Accept Help

01:42:02 Freeing Yourself from Harsh Judgment

01:46:31 Four Steps to Inner Strength

01:53:13 Practicing Trust Beyond Logic

01:56:35 Finding Lessons In Life’s Pain

02:02:12 Releasing the Need to Control

02:04:06 Raising Spiritually Grounded Children

02:07:08 Why Overgiving Hurts Kids

02:10:01 The Dangers of Instant Gratification

02:12:06 What Is Your Soul’s Purpose?

Episode Resources:

Madonna | Website

Madonna | Instagram

Madonna | Facebook

Madonna | YouTube

Madonna | X

Madonna | Flickr

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