Brief intros: Nicholas Bagley was General Counsel to Governor Gretchen Whitmer. Kathy Stack served almost three decades at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). Jenny Mattingley also served at the OMB, focusing on hiring reform and workforce efforts.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(04:42) “I think all three of you have something to say about the Paperwork Reduction Act.”

(12:38) A one-way ratchet

(22:16) How to get a new form approved

(32:04) Why is there no natural constituency to improve this?

(42:14) Inheriting judicial review from the Civil Rights era

(59:13) What should be on the new administration’s agenda?

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