When you're trying to sell as much of it as you can, like a, you know, its like a one or two dimensional challenge. In those cases, going in and optimizing purely for your clothes rate is actually a big mistake. And so the ways i'm looking for that, one is lines of questioning about what they're already doing and why. With consumers, often we need to lead with the prototype and then watch if they use it or not. Unfortunately businesses always complain about a btb lukewarm response from people who don't care. There's no such thing as 'greenwashing' - there are plenty of good solutions out there which just aren't being used.

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