Even in the epidemiological or that, again, I got to start saying observational because for those listening epidemiology can encompass randomized controlled trials if they're looking at disease outcomes and markers as well. But when we look at the observational research on red meat consumption, even on process red meat consumption,. it adjusts for fruit and vegetable intake most of time or diet quality anyway. So there is just a lot of issues. And it just seems to me like that is largely bias playing into it.

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