And the, I suppose the crux of that, that aspect of her teaching was, was remembering that the Alexander technique started out as something to help Alexander communicate. And I, in my lessons, my early lessons in the Alexander technique, I definitely forgot that, that was not front and center. And yet it always is in, in my lessons with Marge's birthday train people. Right. Right.

Well, let's, let's, um, I, unless you, there's something else, very big picture you want to talk about, we could end this conversation. And if we have time, I have a couple of directions we could delve into more deeply. That was that, okay.

There's my, the other, I suppose the other big picture thing is that you mentioned the constellation and I would talk, um, I could talk a long time about the problem with Alexander's technique and, um, and education versus versus treatment. But the final thing that for me that defined Marge's teaching is, and I should say never met her, she died before I started this research. But I have watched her teach on video, I've listened to her speak over interviews with her and I've talked to a lot of people who studied with her and I've read her letters as you said, is the, is what I call integration. So the art and integration, integration of teaching and training, which is something that she did more than any other teacher last century.

That

seems to be changing now. But, um, so,

yeah. Well, that

was crucial to her whole approach to the Alexander technique was that the training wasn't something separate.

Right. Right. And her groups, sometimes quite large, there would be some people who had never heard of the Alexander technique until they arrived the first day. And there were people who had been teachers for many years and all range in all categories in between. And interestingly enough, if you didn't really know who was who, you might have a hard time figuring it out. But one tip off would be, and this fits into what you were talking about earlier, Marge would typically, at various points, say, well, who wants to work on something and activity? And a lot, everyone, most everyone had something they wanted to work on. The one exception would be most of the teachers, who the only activity they could ever conceive of might be, well, could you help me with my teaching? Which was a very tricky pathway to go in those classes, because you were really asking for it if you asked for that. You know, for the most part, there were lots of exceptions, but teachers were a little at a loss to come up with things. I myself was somewhat at a loss. I was halfway through a regular training course, no matter. And I thought, well, what would I like to do better other than be a better teacher when I graduate? And I reverted back to my love of country music and I thought, OK, I'll just get up and sing. Because that is something I really enjoy doing. I will not a terrible singer, but I was interested in how could I sing better? So that would be often my activity. What was your, I know

this isn't the focus of this interview, but I just I don't remember what

drove you to decide to study the only thing I heard heard that she worked with groups. That was the sort of minor buzz in London at that time. And I thought, what made

you go to London to study

it? Oh, I went because I had a very powerful experience with a teacher. It just totally transformed my physicality, for sure. And at some point, I thought, this seems a lot more interesting than what I'm doing now. And where do you go? Back then you went to London, or you might go to San Francisco, but mostly you went to London. And that's why I went. And I, of course, knew nothing about any of this history. But I did hear about this lady in Nebraska who taught big groups. And I thought, I wonder how she does that. And I went out one winter and I got kind of got hooked by it. Yes, she was working with big groups. But in a way, that wasn't the biggest difference. These other things that you've been talking about. So, well, let's stop there. If that's okay. And maybe we could resume with another related topic. So, my guest today is Amanda Cole. And we will be back with another podcast or so. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Roman.