Good point. Yes. And I think also there's a sense from a lot of the clients I work with that there is some secret sauce. There is some thing that's going to be revealed to them that where it's like, you know, everybody, you know, that feeling that we all have, which is like everybody knows how to do this, but me, everybody knows how to adult, but me and everybody got the manual. So what is this secret thing that if I implement, it's going to work for me. And the answer to that is like, yes and no, right? Like it's really like there are a lot of strategies that are very helpful, but there's no secret ADHD handbook out there. That's going to fix all of the issues, especially these issues of feeling overwhelmed. It's like feeling overwhelmed is just part and parcel of life with ADHD as far as I'm concerned. I'm curious what your thoughts are.

I was also going to say that impulsiveness of I want the quick fix of like, let's figure this out. Now I know how to manage my overwhelm. Let's implement all of those things all at once is usually something that happens a lot to people with ADHD because you hear the solution, you might read the solution. It might work for other people and not work for you, but then all of a sudden if you're sitting there and thinking it worked for them and it doesn't work for me, what's wrong with me? And the answer is nothing. It's just strategies that we're going to talk about might work for you at some time. Like some point in your life, they work better than others. You might find that the strategy that you're working works for you for a while and then you have to adapt because other aspects of your life have changed. That's part of this process. It is your life changes, your life evolves. We're not sedentary in how we go about our life. So the ways in which we manage our overwhelm is not going to be the same no matter what the case is. And I think that that's also important to mention.

Okay. So first off, let's talk about what are some of the common causes of overwhelm when you have an ADHD brain?

I think a lot of people who come to me when they talk to me about being overwhelmed, it's because they think they have to do everything all at once. That they have a million things on their to do list and everything feels like a top priority. And really, if we started to analyze it, it's not. Some things are a lot more obvious that they should do first and then others. I think that's part of it. What were you going to say? Because I feel like I just cut you up.

No, no, I think that's exactly it. And I think you go in the head with just like it's a prioritization issue as far as I'm concerned, right? Everything feels urgent. I always liken it to those buzzers that you get at chain restaurants where I'm like, everything feels like that. All at once on a table demanding my attention. And that is one of the executive functioning issues is prioritization. And it's something that I think we struggle with in terms of everything that comes immediately to the fore of our brain becomes the new important thing that we really have a very difficult sense of realizing what is truly important as opposed to what is immediate.

It's also the thing that comes in front of you first. So I think when you might have an idea as to what you're prioritizing, but let's say somebody at your office comes into your office and it was like, hey, we need to work on this. You drop everything immediately because that's the thing that you see directly in front of you. So it is still a prioritizing issue, but all of a sudden somebody brings something to you and all of a sudden it's like it went out the door because you've been interrupted. Your focus has been interrupted. The other aspect is that time management piece. Sometimes you are overwhelmed because the task that you want to do or I shouldn't say want to do. The task you're avoiding generally is the thing that you don't want to do because it's frustrating for you. You don't necessarily know where the starting off point is. And therefore it's consuming you because you are not sure where to start, how to figure out what tasks are involved or it's the opposite where you see all of the little tasks that have to be done in order to accomplish this one big goal. And that to you feels like I don't have enough motivation to start. Right.

And that's where I always used to think I had some kind of processing disorder because I remember experiencing that a lot in school when I was younger, right, which is just that feeling of there's this end goal and there's so many steps that I have to get to to get to this end of this giant project. And like I don't even know where to start. Also like I steal the steps at once and so I'm instantly overwhelmed. And it's like you see everything and

nothing all at the

time. And you know, really feeling like I don't know how to take that first step. That is where we really, really need help from like you said, right from the get go. Just before we've even taken that first step, but I think we tend to like say, I have to figure out what my first step is before I get help. Like we have to show up already knowing things and I'm like, where does that come

from? The pleasing aspect of us, the over conversation. I mean, I could go on and on about where that comes from. But it's true. And I think that there's no shame in asking for help. I'm like thinking as you were talking about when I had this boss, she would give me a list of all the things that needed to be accomplished. And when I would sit in the room and she would talk to me. And I realized I was the sole person who had to do all of these things. I would go silent, which clearly that's not my personality. If I went completely silent, everybody in the room knew something was wrong. And it was usually because I was so overwhelmed that I had no words because I'm processing all of those steps and how am I going to have enough time to do all of those things? How am I going to motivate myself to sit down and focus on that? Who is going to proofread all of those things? I mean, it is every step can feel overwhelming, even if you can figure out that step. But what we're going to talk about is not necessarily that you have to do it by yourself. And I think that that was always the part that was frustrating for me was that always felt like this was my challenge alone and that no one would be able to help me. And some of what I think you and I are going to talk about is not that you're doing it alone, but how you can make it a little bit easier if you are on your own and ways in which you can get support from people around you to make you feel less alone in those tasks. Because the tasks that feel the most satisfying are the ones that we could just check the box and be like, oh my God, we're done. It's like graduated next level. Like it doesn't come back to me like a boomerang. This is complete. So I think you and I have a lot of different strategies on how we can get to that feeling and help you feel more motivated to keep going.

Yeah, that's a good point. There are so many different levels to what support looks like. And it's not always necessarily another human, although that would be great. But it's like having a toolbox where you can say like, what do I need in this moment even before you even take that first

step. So yeah, I'd love to know like what strategies do you really work on with your clients when it comes to managing that overwhelm? Like what are some tips that really seem to feel universal in some way?

So one of the things I work on with my, especially with my group coaching clients is the recognizing the difference between an interest based brain and a neurotypical sort of information or important space brain and realizing that we are actually incredibly motivated. We're actually incredibly, you know, productive when we are interested in something. So totally. It's just the step in this process is to just recognize that we are not actually inherently lazy human beings that there is a method to this madness. Can

you put that on a bumper sticker?

It's like, and so one of the things I actually do with my clients is I walk them through like, what are some of the things you're really good at? Because chances are, you know, a lot of neurodivergence have issues. You know, some of them, you know, some of us are really, really difficult at like feeding ourselves and others of us don't have an issue with that. Some of us love cooking, right? A lot of people who are neurodivergent have a really hard time with certain hygiene, like teeth brushing, right? Things that don't have an immediate reward or an immediate consequence. And some other people who are neurodivergent have like such sensory issues around their mouths are able to do things on a regular consistent basis. And then identifying what the motivation is behind that. So for somebody who is really, really good at brushing their teeth, or at least really, really consistent with it, usually there's like a sensory issue or their dentist or, you know, like me, I took, you know, extensive gum issues to finally get me to sort of to follow through on that, right? So it's like something happens that finally flip that switch brief. Usually it involves your dentist scaling at you or really expensive bills or some kind of debilitating issues. But like you identifying that there is always a motivation and like what that is because I think that's really, really key when it comes to figuring out how to approach something if it's not inherently interesting and recognizing that if something was inherently interesting, you would have already done it. That's how we do it. That's how we approach things. So that was always like the first step as far as I'm concerned.

By the way, the toothbrush thing, I, the game changed for me. I hated my electric toothbrush because I hated when you would stand an electric toothbrush and then it would get like slimy and gross. And then I didn't want to touch it. So it was like a sensory issue. So I found a toothbrush that you put upside down and it like cleans it with like a sonic whatever so that it's clean, but it never gets like a soggy bottom and that completely changed my piece on brushing my teeth. So I totally connected with that sensory piece.

And for me, I have been create other chores into my tooth brushing routine. So now I, it's like a two minutes. I have one of those toothbrushes that buzzes every 30 seconds to tell you to shift to a different place in your mouth, which sometimes I pay attention to you. Sometimes I don't, but usually I use that two minutes. I don't stand still. I walk around, I go around, you know, I'm upstairs. I open the windows at night. Like I have other things that I then do that I'm kind of habit stacked to get it done. But anyway, so, so the point is there's like, we have to be really proactive when it comes to something that we don't naturally want to do, but also recognize that it's really just sort of like solving a puzzle, right? It's not like you're getting out of that place where you're like, I'm a terrible human. I'm lazy. I'm bored. You know, I'm procrastinating because I'm stuck like all of the sort of emotional reactions that we tend to have to not doing things is to really get that place and get much to be logical place where you can say like something needs to happen here that isn't happening. So how do I identify what is happening? And so for me, and with my clients, usually it's some sort of motivator. And then there's also if the motivation is lacking, like for instance, you know, some one of the ones that's really difficult are like doctor's appointments. A lot of us struggle with that because it's like, eh, there's no urgency there. It's really annoying. You never know how long it's going to take. You never know when you pick up the phone if it's going to be a five minute phone conversation or 30 minutes on hold. So it's like there's so many variables around that that are really frustrating. So just recognizing like some of those like really sitting and thinking like, okay, this is why I'm reluctant to do this.

I think the recognition of that is definitely there. I think the motivation there is also part of it. And it's really hard to self motivate, especially when you don't have to feel accountable to anybody else. You're just holding yourself accountable to it. So that's why you're like, I'm just going to like let it pass. So I didn't go to that doctor's visit. Like I'm really the only one who's going to suffer. So you kind of put yourself in the back seat and it's like, okay, but you need to prioritize yourself. When you're mentioning doctor visit, I would like twice a year schedule two days where all of my doctors appointments were like in those two days. And I would reward myself with something at the end of those days, like a dinner out with my friends or getting, or getting my nails done or something in between or on the way there, if I didn't have to do like fasting blood work or something, I would go pick up like my favorite coffee and it wasn't just like Starbucks. It was something specialty. It was just the tiniest piece. But I want to go to part of what I do. And I think this really plays in nicely to what you are saying is how to even figure out where to start because a lot of that is like, I know where to start and therefore I'm doing it. I know what's motivating, but how do we kind of take a step back and say, where do I start? And a lot of the times I talk to people about just doing a full brain job, write down everything that is in your mind so that you can visualize it because if it's just sitting up here, it's going to overwhelm you because you're the only one who knows it. And that's kind of when you're like in those workspace scenarios and you're like, I have to do it because no one else knows what to do. I want you to take that and put it down on paper. And I have people write down all of the things, whether it's work related or home related or personal, it doesn't matter. And then we kind of rank in order of priorities, but I actually start with what's least important because that's the easiest thing we can just throw to the side and say, okay, now I know where to start. But also breaking that task down, you mentioned making the doctor appointment. It's calling the doctor. It's driving potentially or walking or wherever you live, getting to the appointment, sitting there, maybe having to do a follow up appointment and schedule that. And then it's also going to a pharmacy if you have to pick up a medication after that appointment, who knows? It's what do those steps look like that we can get that feeling of check the box. I did that part. This part feels tangible and I can be successful if I just did this part. Yeah.

I like to use the example of Thanksgiving dinner where I'm like, we don't show up to the grocery store with Thanksgiving dinner written on a piece of paper, right? We have to get there. So we have to work backwards. We have to figure out what all the dishes are. We have to figure out who's going to be making blood and who's helping and who's bringing. We have to then figure out what are the ingredients for each dish and then we have to figure out

if we have those ingredients and what we have and what we don't have, right? And so it's like that's starting backwards. It's starting backwards. It's that low hanging fruit of like, I know these

parts. And oftentimes that's where I think a lot of us feel like we should be able to do that on our own. And that's, I feel like that is in those sort of prompts, like, like I think of like quarterly financial planning or some of the things I'm really bad at, which is like, you know, you could give me a list of questions that I need to ask myself in terms of what are my next steps. I'm still not going to answer those questions alone, right? Like I literally will need either somebody to do it with me or I need to be prompted. Like there's something even just about holding ourselves accountable that can be really, really difficult with ADHD. So it's like recognizing like how much, how long am I going to spend trying to force myself to do something versus, you know, getting better at immediately recognizing this isn't something I'm going to do on my own. So now what, right? And again, getting out of that like, oh, I just need to try harder. I just need a full weekend of, you know, unstructured tire. All these things we tell ourselves are basically these judgment calls about how we're terrible for not doing it as opposed to getting out of the emotional place and saying, yeah, this isn't something I'm going to do. So, right. But also

I'm thinking about that, that accountability factor. And that's what we're really hoping when we do these body doubling sessions that you can actually feel like you have the support of other people in this community to hold you accountable to do something. Some people are sitting on those that, you know, body doubling sessions and putting their laundry away. That is really hard. And if someone is not in like standing over you to say like, put your laundry away, it's overwhelming me. If you see somebody else doing it, you're like, oh, you know what? Okay. I can do it now. Somebody somebody's here to do it. If someone's out of your physical space, my husband knows if the apartment is a mess, I will tell him I'm very overwhelmed with how messy the apartment is and he'll look at me and be like, so I need to start in order for you to start moving him like exactly like support doesn't have to be physically in person. If it is, sometimes it is as simple as having somebody start, but that's also what we're hoping you can get from the body doubling session to that is where we're here supporting each other virtually to do that.

Yeah. A client I had who was used to accountability in really unique ways. And so one of the things that she did when she needed to clean a space is she would do it, she would make it fun, which I think is something that helps with interest for a lot of us, which for us a lot of the time, which is how can I make this more interesting and more fun. So it would take before and after pictures and there was sort of like a challenge, right? And a lot of people do that with before and after pictures, but she would send the before picture. She would text it to her friend and say, if I haven't texted you back in an hour, check in on me. And I thought that was so smart because it's like there's so many boxes checked off there in terms of accountability. It's like you've got you've given yourself a deadline. So you've given yourself a little bit of urgency, which is also, you know, like when I talk about the five key elements that something needs to have for us to be interested in it. And this is, you know, you can find this on the internet too, but it's really sort of these things around a task where it's like, does it have urgency? Is there a timeframe when it doesn't have a timeframe to it? It can be really, really difficult for us to get motivated. So can I create a timeframe, basically? Can I make it urgent in some way? And you know, one of the things I used to do, I remember when I was a kid and I had no idea how to ADHD, but when my parents would make me clean my room, I would pretend that I was an adult and my bedroom was an apartment. And I would like get a phone call for my parents and they from the airport and they'd be like, Hi, honey, we're going to come visit you and we're going to be here in half an hour. And I'd be like, half an hour. Okay, can't wait to see you. And then I would hang up my imaginary phone and I love that for 10 play. Right. And I was like, wow, that was really brilliant of little eight year old me to come up with that just as a way of, you know, creating those ways, that sense of urgency. So I

did something where I would play my favorite game. I love Tetris. It has always been like my favorite games. I would play Tetris for a certain amount of time. And once I got to that time, then I would focus on something else, but I was already in a hyper focused mode because I was so consistent with that. And I felt that dopamine fix that I could get up and do something. But one of my clients made a special playlist that was like 20 minutes long. And when she would tell herself she needed to clean, she would put on that 20 minute playlist. And when that playlist was over, she was done. So she, she knew how long the playlist was for. And she had like certain playlists that were a certain amount of time. But the whole point was she could like dance around. So she had like a 90s mix on this one and like show tunes for this type of one, whatever it was, it was like different enough. But she knew when it was over, that's all she had to do. Like if something didn't get finished, maybe she felt motivated enough to keep going. But if she didn't, she felt like it was exactly what she needed in that moment.

That's really smart. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like music is a great motivator for a lot of us. So so another one that I wanted to also get to, which is like, is it novel? Is it new? Is it, you know, is another one that I think a lot of us struggle with, especially when it comes to housework and the redundancy of a lot of domestic tasks because it's like I'm cleaning dishes and they're just going to get dirty again. I'm cleaning laundry and folding in. It's just going to get worn again. Right. It's like that cycle of mundaneness that I think really, really keeps us from doing something. But we always joke about the fact that it's like, if you want me to clean your garage, I will happily go do it because I'm like, whoo, it's somebody's like, it's not mine. Yeah. So I think it's going to give ways that we can infuse novelty into what we're doing is also, again, I think it's really important. But oftentimes if we're in a state of overwhelm, we can't get to a place where we'd be like, how am I going to make this more interesting? And that's why I think it could be helpful to bring somebody else into it. Or again, like coming up, you know, brainstorming with a community of people who get it, right? Who can say, I had a friend who did this and it was really cool. And that'll spark your interest and be like, Oh, okay. What can I do? One of my favorite examples of this, and then I'll let you go. But it was like, one of my favorite examples of making something novel is all of the people on TikTok who do time lapse videos of themselves

cleaning. Oh, satisfying. Right.

Because it is so satisfying. But at the same time, it's like they got themselves, like all they did really was got themselves to do a boring task by setting up their camera and filming themselves doing it. And then, you know, creating a post, they've made this so much more complicated than they needed

to. Right.