Empirical Challenges: Measuring Subjective Time

What is Consciousness Really?

Professor Jonathan Schooler joins Dr Tevin Naidu the Mind-Body Solution Podcast for a deep exploration of consciousness, mind wandering, and the Nested Observer Windows (NOW) model. In this conversation, Schooler—founder of Meta Lab (Memory, Emotion, Thought & Awareness) at UCSB—explains why introspection can distort experience, how mind wandering reveals hidden layers of awareness, and why consciousness may be structured as a hierarchy of nested experiential windows.We explore:Why self-reports both matter and misleadMeta-awareness and the illusion of continuous attentionPanpsychism, idealism, and materialismSynchronization and coherence in conscious systemsThe three dimensions of time (objective, subjective, alternative)Free will, creativity, and openness to experienceConsciousness beyond the brain—and possibly beyond deathThis episode bridges psychology, neuroscience, philosophy, and physics, offering one of the clearest articulations of Schooler’s most ambitious ideas to date.TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) — Why Consciousness Is Paradoxical (04:24) — Why Introspection Distorts Experience (Verbal Overshadowing)(08:26) — How Scientists Measure Mind Wandering(11:25) — Do We Directly Access Experience or Construct It Later?(14:29) — Near-Death Experiences, Memory, and Illusion(17:43) — Evolutionary Advantages of Mind Wandering(20:35) — Inside Meta Lab: Memory, Emotion, Thought & Awareness(22:52) — Materialism vs Idealism vs Panpsychism(27:04) — Introducing the Nested Observer Windows (NOW) Model(30:49) — Consciousness as a Mosaic of Nested Windows(33:35) — Synchronization, Coherence & Cross-Frequency Coupling(41:50) — Why Information Is Lost as Awareness Scales Up(45:04) — Three Dimensions of Time Explained(50:51) — Why Science Struggles With Experience, Time & Free Will(55:09) — Subjective Time, Frame Rates & Flow of Consciousness(59:15) — Alternative Time & the Possibility of Free Will(1:05:46) — Measuring Subjective Time in the Brain(1:10:18) — Many Worlds Theory Reimagined Through Consciousness(1:18:48) — Creativity, Mind Wandering & Openness to Experience(2:01:09) — Consciousness, Openness & Humanity’s FutureEPISODE LINKS:- Jonathan's Website: https://labs.psych.ucsb.edu/schooler/jonathan/members/schooler- Jonathan's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=3UEI9NIAAAAJ&hl=en- Jonathan's Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Schooler- Jonathan's X: https://twitter.com/JonathanSchool6CONNECT:- Website: https://mindbodysolution.org - YouTube: https://youtube.com/@mindbodysolution- Podcast: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/mindbodysolution- Twitter: https://twitter.com/drtevinnaidu- Facebook: https://facebook.com/drtevinnaidu - Instagram: https://instagram.com/drtevinnaidu- LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/drtevinnaidu- Website: https://tevinnaidu.com=============================Disclaimer: The information provided on this channel is for educational purposes only. The content is shared in the spirit of open discourse and does not constitute, nor does it substitute, professional or medical advice. We do not accept any liability for any loss or damage incurred from you acting or not acting as a result of listening/watching any of our contents. You acknowledge that you use the information provided at your own risk. Listeners/viewers are advised to conduct their own research and consult with their own experts in the respective fields.