Speaker 2
interesting because I think very unintentionally, I do that with our men's weekends. I have my mentor, Dewey, who's 74, who is a master in gestalt and attachments and, you know, all sorts of equine therapy, all sorts of stuff. He teaches and there's a sort of reverence there. You know, it's like a lot of the men come there to work with me, but I make it very clear that there's a kind of nourishment that they're going to get from him that I cannot give them. And
Speaker 1
it's not my role. That's what I did in my 40s, 50s. I want to make it very clear. I'm the journeyman here. Robert is the master. And I know some of you came just for me, that you didn't really know who Robert was. But let me be clear, even to you, he's the master. I'm the second banana. And it was one of the most invigorating, exciting, challenging thing to not let my ego or vanity try to be the master. And at the same time, it was the most relaxing thing. When we would go into a room of 150 men, I could relax. The master's going to carry it. I'll throw in whatever I'll throw in, you know, and be fine with it. But that,
Speaker 1
literally knew my place. Let's put it that way. Now, some of the younger men that Robert pulled in, they would fight with them sometimes. They wanted to be in that place. It was kind of funny. And by the time Robert and I stopped doing it, there'd be some hotshot 40-year and we'd just go, he's got some dirt to eat. well
Speaker 2
i do think that that's as you know in some ways it's a byproduct of our modern the modern narrative of very fast-paced progression at all costs relentlessly and i see it all the time in men who come in to do work with me or with an organization or or even some of my friends' organizations where there's this hunger for this quick fix. Yeah, that's right. It's like, hey, I have all this childhood trauma that I actually never dealt with. I'd really love to be through it in the next two months. It's like, okay, well, how long is this going to take? And
Speaker 1
I'm entitled to be.
Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Done
Speaker 1
It's my right. It's my right.
Speaker 2
Yes. And, and so I found that part very interesting because I think, I think I've always been blessed. My grandfather was a very interesting character and would tell me stories as a boy about the wilderness and the, you know, it was a veryus-based world that he would take me into. He talked to me about the badgers and the bears, and they would all talk, and the eagles, and there were these stories that would unfold. And I mean, I didn't realize, I loved them. I loved listening to them, but I didn't realize how fundamentally important they were until much later on in life when I started reading Jung and I got it. I understood what was happening and there was a part of my psyche that really resonated with it. And I think because of that, I've had a temperance of not humbleness necessarily, because I do have a pretty healthy ego on me. And there is that competitive part that, you know, it looks at the master and is like, hmm, like how long? Like maybe in a year I could be there, you know? And so there's that healthy masculine edge that comes out, but there's such a reverence for men like yourself and Michael Mead and Dr. James Hollis and my friend Dewey Freeman, who I think have so much to offer, and that I think we've displaced, because we're so used to in our culture being around the elders, but not really elders. Elders, that's true. That we've forgotten how to actually treat elders in the way that we can, and that they deserve.
Speaker 1
Well, and the other part is elders don't want to be elders. They want to be young. Yeah.
Speaker 1
know, I mean, I talk to talk to men and women and say, you know, this is a glorious time if you'll step in. I don't want to step into it. I want to I want to be 35 again. And it's really kind of weird because in this culture, a 60-year can sort of get away with acting like a 35-year looking like a 35-year you know? my next year or two to keep doing these webinars and podcasts and stuff about what it means to be an elder and command whatever respect a real working elder should be expecting and not settle for. You know, I studied Jung too a lot, still do actually. But, you know, he said the first 40 years is to develop an ego. First half of life is to develop an ego. Second half of life is to let it go.
Speaker 2
The dissolving.
Speaker 1
He said the first 40 years, you're just doing research.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I love that a lot. I feel, would you be open to coming back on for part two where we talk about a man and his mother and a man and his father? Yeah, sure. Would you be open to that?
Speaker 1
Yeah, you want to take a 10-minute break, five-minute break, what?
Speaker 2
We'll have to wrap up for today. Oh,
Speaker 1
for this. Yeah. We'll I thought we were going to five. I thought, okay. Yeah,
Speaker 2
yeah, yeah. But I would love to have you back on. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can dig into that more effectively because I don't want to shortchange it. I think that we can get into, you know, how do we as men set our relationship right with our mother, with the feminine, and then same with our father. And those are sort of two very complex things. So I'd love to tackle those on a part two where we have another hour, hour and a half to dive into that. Absolutely.
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'd love it. Outstanding.
Speaker 2
So where can the listeners go to learn more about you and your work and dive into your books? My
Speaker 1
website is johnleybooks.com. Simple, johnleybooks.com. My email is john johnleebooks.com. And all my books are available on Amazon. I'm doing a program, I think it's November the 15th, coming up soon, a three-hour program called Hero to Elder, The Odyssey of Aging. So I'm hoping maybe a listener or two might join us for that, especially if they're 40 or over.
Speaker 2
Beauty. Beauty. Well, thank you so much, John. Connor, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1
It's been a very nice, nice time to be with you. I can see really that you've put in the work already and your perception of your role and what you have to teach and what you have to learn and your respect for your elders. And also, you know, but how old
Speaker 2
did you say you were? Forty what? Forty. Forty. Forty-one next month. I'm from close. Now,
Speaker 1
in some ways, see, in some ways, a 20-year is going to respond much more deeply to you than a 20-year is going to respond to a 73-year And so you're right in the sweet spot there to help these soft males in ways that I don't have access to and they wouldn't listen to me anyway. Well, I appreciate that. I'll take
Speaker 2
that all day, and I look forward to our next conversation. Just
Speaker 1
let Caffey know when you're ready, and we'll schedule it and set it out. You bet. Thank you, John. Have a good weekend. Talk to you later. You too. Bye-bye. Be well.
