"Just being good at making coffee does not, does not make me good owner of aror manager operator of a of a coffee business. Not m and so i, i first read the mith, i thinking, like, 20 19 or something," he says. "i'd had a business at that point, been going for five years." 'I'm very interested in the idea of ar sustainable businessesno' He adds: 'How do you build a business that that exists outside of the people that work within it? Um?'

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