There are a ton of messaging apps on the market – and there are actually quite a few that are very secure and private. I would argue that there is no such thing as a “perfect” secure messaging app. There are several threat models to account for, each with different requirements. Today we’re going to talk about the pros and cons of decentralized messaging with the co-founder of Session, Kee Jeffreys. These messaging apps don’t rely on a set of servers hosted by the provider, but rather on a mesh of nodes run by hundreds or thousands of others. We’ll also discuss the importance of protecting metadata and the notion of “permissionless access”. Session just announced support for key features in the upcoming version 2 of their protocol, including Perfect Forward Secrecy (PFS) and post-quantum encryption.

Interview Notes

• Get the Session app: https://getsession.org/ 
• Session adds PFS, post-quantum crypto: https://getsession.org/blog/session-protocol-v2 
• xkcd $5 wrench (“Security”): https://xkcd.com/538/ 

Further Info

• Annual Listener Survey!!! https://fdsd.me/survey2026 
• New Patron Promotion!! https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/new-patron-promotion/
• Generate passphrases using d02’s: https://d20key.com/#/ 
• My book: https://fdsd.me/book 
• My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter 
• Support the mission: https://fdsd.me/support 
• Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons 
• Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch 

Table of Contents

• 0:00:13: Intro
• 0:01:12: Promotion teasers
• 0:01:54: Interview setup
• 0:03:33: Lingo
• 0:05:07: Why did you create Session?
• 0:11:01: How does the location of a company’s HQ matter?
• 0:18:58: Why do regular people need this level of security?
• 0:22:01: How does Session work?
• 0:29:59: Why does permissional account creation matter?
• 0:35:55: How does Session compare to other apps?
• 0:45:27: Why didn’t Session have Perfect Forward Secrecy originally?
• 0:53:50: When will PFS roll out?
• 0:58:37: How does cryptocurrency factor into Session’s network?
• 1:03:32: What happens if $SESH price goes way up or way down?
• 1:07:19: How does Session sustain itself?
• 1:13:34: Why is private messaging so important?
• 1:19:49: Wrap-up
• 1:22:34: Patron podcast preview
• 1:23:44: New patron promotion
• 1:27:14: Annual listener survey