Yoga. Therapy. Meditation. Yes, wellness perks are helpful, but they’re not a panacea for workplace stress. In this episode of The McKinsey Podcast, Erica Coe, a McKinsey partner and coleader of the McKinsey Health Institute (MHI), speaks with McKinsey Global Publishing’s Lucia Rahilly about why burnout has hit record levels over the past two years—and what leaders can do to create a path toward lasting change.

After, senior partner Tiffany Burns describes one of her rookie moments: talking a client down from sending an email in a state of frustration.

Rookie Moments: https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/my-rookie-moment

How to lead with Deliberate Calm, a new book, soon-to-publish from McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/mckinsey-on-books/deliberate-calm

Theme music written, produced and performed by Joy Ngiaw.

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