In this short segment of the Revenue Builders Podcast, John McMahon and John Kaplan dive deep into one of the most important and most overlooked drivers of organizational growth: the roles of first and second line managers. Joined by Scott Rudy, CRO at Zywave, the conversation unpacks why these leadership levels are vital to sales success, where companies often blur responsibilities, and how to build accountability into leadership structures. From recruiting to development plans, and from forecasting to coaching, this discussion provides practical insights for CROs, VPs, and leaders who want to strengthen their sales engine and avoid costly missteps.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

[00:00:22] First line managers are the backbone of seller success but face high pressure with new responsibilities like recruiting, training, and forecasting.
[00:02:02] Second line leaders should not act as duplicate first line managers; their true role is coaching, simplifying, and plugging gaps for new managers.
[00:02:58] Proper segregation of duties—development plans, recruiting involvement, and quality checks—prevents confusion and duplication.
[00:03:56] A sales organization’s growth is often constrained by ineffective execution at the first line manager level.
[00:04:53] Accountability must extend to both first and second line managers, ensuring clarity in responsibilities.
[00:06:13] CROs should hold second line managers accountable for development plans and rep performance, not just first line leaders.
[00:07:27] Recruiting should be a joint process—first line managers drive it, second line managers coach and validate decisions.
[00:08:12] Second line leaders focus on quality, spotting blind spots, and identifying trends in recruiting and management.

QUOTES

[00:00:49] “Seller success should be the number one objective and North Star for a first line leader.”
[00:02:02] “A great second line leader plugs the holes of a new first line leader by coaching and simplifying the job.”
[00:02:58] “Segregating responsibilities prevents first and second line leaders from duplicating efforts and confusing reps.”
[00:03:56] “One of the biggest obstacles for success is the execution of a first line manager.”
[00:06:31] “If I’m the CRO, I’m asking the second line manager first about a rep’s performance and development plan.”
[00:08:00] “The second line leader ought to focus on quality—spotting trends and blind spots the first line leader may miss.”

Listen to the full conversation through the link below.
https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/the-critical-role-of-sales-managers-in-driving-growth-with-scott-rudy

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Check out John McMahon’s book here:
Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDC4

Check out Force Management’s Ascender platform here:
https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/

Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.

This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.

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